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You are looking at a microcosm of education. Although many of the problems that you see are existant throughout education, many others you fail to see. How is it to be expected that all children will be educated to the same standard when teachers are not paid to the same standard? From state to state and town to town schools have budgets that differ immensely. Yes liberalism is pervasive in education, this is a product of our government. The Democratic Party is far more supportive monetarily of education than the Republican Party. Because of this, most educators are liberal minded simply out of self preservation. I don't feel a need to be so. I guess I would rather get a job at McDonalds than vote a Dem. into office and lose my rights and freedoms. Heck, at least I know now that I'd be able to understand the buttons on the cash register. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The Opium of the Professors

It is said of Woodrow Wilson that when asked what the purpose of a liberal education is, he replied "To make a person as unlike his father as possible." He was, at the time, merely the president of Princeton University, and had not yet become schoolmarm-in-chief of the United States or waged the war that ended all wars and made the world safe for democracy.



But as with his better-known schemes of social uplift and gauzy internationalism, so too with his philosophy of education, Wilson was the very model of the progressive academic. Whatever bland official statement of purpose might appear in the introduction to a modern university's college catalog, its true raison d'etre is in practice nothing other than to destroy utterly whatever allegiance a young person might have to traditional conceptions in morality, religion, politics and culture, to "do dirt" on the faith of his fathers, on his country, and on what most human beings have historically understood to be the imperatives of decency. It is, in short, to propagate Leftism.

The rest here, long but worth it.

http://techcentralstation.com/021604A.html

And as an aside, this now goes way beyond Republican VS Democrat. It has become an all pervasive entity through much of America.

As I have said before, there exists no conspiracy to promote leftism. The ills of society and the promulgation of liberal ideals are very complex. Much of the blame lies in the urabanization of America. Less than 2% of all Americans are involved in agriculture today versus the majority that were only 60-70 years ago. With urbanization has come all of the inherant problems. Tight knit communities are something that most urbanites find hard to fathom. Parents no longer support the school and whatever punishments may be delivered, instead the threaten to sue. Children no longer look to Roy Rogers as an idyllic hero but rather to people like Kolby Bryant. Considering all of this one still cannot look at the past through rose colored glasses, there existed many problems at that time as well. One only need look at the age of the example that you used, the days of Woodrow Wilson were far before most on this board were born let alone in school. A return to the "way things used to be" has been the rallying cry for those unable to deal with change since time began. In reality it is only those able to adapt to change, those willing to step up and mold the changes to the best of their ability, that amount to anything other than just another sheep amoung the herd bawling for their own lack of potency. I do not agree with the current state of liberalism within education but I do my best to educate the children that I am charged with in the reality of history and gov't and I try to do so without imparting my personal political beliefs - which happen to be very conservative, to the consternation of many of my fellow teachers.

No rose colered glasses here, I worked my butt off on the farm before and after school. But it did teach me much about real life, work ethic, pride of accomplishment, a sense of self worth and respect for others. I spent much time reading and we all sat down to supper together and discussed each others day and what was going on around us, no one eyed monster blaring in the background to distract either. We were family, not a related group of strangers that wandered in and out of the house in mere passing.

In a way todays kids don't have a chance to be kids, mores the pity. In school we studied the basics of Reading (the key to ALL learning IMHO), mathematics, history (modern and ancient), social studies and civics and had to pass a Constitution test to graduate High School. We were also exposed to the basic sciences and current events and how they related to history and the possible future. Tell me kids have that advantage today in most schools.

There is nothing wrong with having a computer lab and the like, don't get me wrong, but they must first be well grounded in the basics to appreciate how it works rather than learning just how to work the damn thing!

Ranger1:



We may differ on what constitutes conspiracy. In Merriam-Webster's New Ideal Dictionary, Copyright 1978, CONSPIRACY is defined simply as 'an agreement among conspirators". Not much meat there. If you move to CONSPIRE we see Plot, Contrive, & then "to agree secretely do do an unlawful or wrongful act".



If that is an acceptable interpretation of the meaning of conspiracy then I fail to see how you can possibly claim that there is none at work here. At the very least what is being done to us all is wrong.



I have a friend who happens to be a former teacher, who agrees with you. His theory is that what is happening in America is based in the historical fact that nations inevitably rise & fall. Official corruption, prosperity & degeneracy are harbingers of collapse. My friend says that there is no conspiracy because the people in the education lobby, the government & the others who are working diligently & secretively to change/destroy America make no secret of what they are doing. He is right, in that their intentions & stratagies are readily available for examination. Except for one thing.



Most people do not know where to look. In fact, they do not know that there is anything to look for. In my last post I offered some suggestions as to where to document my comments. It was interesting that your response was rapid & predictable for a teacher.



Allow me to admit something that I am not proud of. As I stated before, I have been looking at public schools since 1974. Over the years, dealing with the stone wall erected by the school district in Philadelphia, & the dawning reality that schools were actively engaged in dumbing down students entrusted to them by parents to educate, I began to despise the system. Then I began to despise teachers.



Only recently, after discovering government documents that frankly describe the true mission of public schools, did I become fully aware of something that I had only been partially aware of. I realized that the question that had not fully formulated itself in my mind had to do with how America's educational apparatus had been relinquished to the control of the political left. The radical left is more accurate. Where were conservatives? Where are they today? I know this. Both political parties comprise the government.



I want to go back to your claim that I should just get rid of my paranoid ideation regarding the schools. If I understood you correctly you said that your teaching has nothing to do with any plot or conspiracy. My ex-teacher friend says the same thing. I believe you both. At least I believe that you believe this.



I also apologize for the hostility I felt for teachers & school administrators for so long. I was wrong. They are victims too. As are students, parents & this nation. I say to you now, without apology or doubt, that we have all been betrayed.



Betrayed by people like John Dewey, Horace Mann & their contemporaries & followers. Their motivation for starting the public school system was to undermine & eventually destroy capitalism, & replace it with a socialist society. Before you groan & convince yourself that my assertion is proof that I am some kind of conspiracy nut I challenge you to read.



Your initial response to my last post came so quickly that I know you did not take time to look at any of the books or documents I mentioned. Your response was typical of teachers who sadly personalize criticism of the system they have honestly & sincerely committed themselves to. Before you dismiss me as paranoid take the time to look at the works of John Dewey. This monster founded the NEA & started the first "Laboratory School" back in 1896. From then on children sent to schools by trusting parents were considered to be, & treated as subjects of behavioral experimentation. That has not changed.



Ask any teacher why the system they have dedicated their lives to, generally with insufficient financial return, why their efforts consistently fail. Ask why the rate of illiteracy has increased steadily over the last forty years at least, in spite of their very best efforts. Almost invariably their response will identify parents & lack of funding as the culprits.



I ask you one question. Where do you think all these incompetent, substance abusing, child abusing parents came from? My answer? From the very system you are involved in. A system that was never intended to suceed in preparing children academically to move into the future with the technical skills needed to compete in the job market, to think critically, invent or improvise.



I submit to you that while many, with ample evidence, condemn public education as a failure, are mistaken. I was among their number. The truth is that the system is a tremendous success. It functions as intended. Our society has degenerated. Our people are generally more ignorant than they ever were. Just consider the man in the street interviews by Leno & others. A true embarrassment to us all. At least they should be.



Please understand. I am not attacking you. I agree with you that $21,000 is a disgraceful annual salary for teaching. I want you to consider this. During my years of digging I have become aware of something. The education researchers who illegally construct curriculum for public schools are more often that not PHD's. Their credentials qualify them for substantial salaries. A lot more than 21K I'll bet.



It is true that much of the research they are engaged in is financed by foundations & corporations. I have been unable to discover how much of the money they are paid come from the taxpayer. I am blessed to have retired & relocated to Montana. I have been waiting for weeks, after several phone calls to the state Office of Education, to learn how many teachers & administrators in my state are involved in hands on, in school, face to face teaching of students, as opposed to research. (NOTE: I am aware that most of this research is done at the national level. I am also aware that properties are constantly being raised for education in Montana.) Research that has nothing to do with preparing children academically, but is focused on administering behavioral instruments that can be used to change opinion & attitudes to "acceptable" norms. Acceptable to a government & educational system that is preparing our children & our nation for membership in the global community. It is not acceptable to me.



How much money are we talking about? How appropriate is it for sincere, dedicated teachers to subsist on crumbs while individuals involved in illegal, covert research make six figures? It is in fact illegal for government to involve itself in formulating curriculum.



I am tired & it is getting late. I do have to include a quote from a man named Chester M. Pierce, who, in 1972, told the Association for Childhood Education International, in what was described as his keynote address:

Every child in America entering school at the age five

is insane because he comes to school with certain

allegiances toward our founding fathers, toward his

parents, toward a belief in a supernatural being....

It's up to you teachers, to make all of these sick

children well by creating the international children

of the future.

Now, I ask you, who is really insane? That level of arrogance is demented as far as I am concerned. (My search turned up a reference to a 1973 address, not 1972. For that reason I must admit that I have not 100% confirmed the validity of this particular quote. Based on what I have confirmed beyond doubt I do believe this to be a true representation of Mr Pierce's comments).



The real problem for us all is that these people have been operating under the radar screens for decades. Until I die I will do every thing I can do to expose them. I beg you Ranger1 to help me. Just try to find the time to look at the information that is out there.

legs - when you said you were blessed, you weren't kidding, wisdom and courage, to name a few.

Regards, sse

sse,

you said it as well as it could be said, but I agree, legs you seem to be an exceptional man. Our country needs more like you. I'm pretty happy with our home schooling. 1ak

Once upon a time Democrats represented working Americans, and Republicans represented business. The two somewhat balanced each other. Now Democrats represent the social and economic subsidization of the very real Third World we have right here in the U.S. ( perhaps a liberal dream of some sort of "helter Skelter"). But there is no-one to represent the working class, and they have grown tired after giving thirty years with little results to show for their efforts and money subsidizing the "Great Society", and now many have thrown their lot in with the Republicans. But for all the Republican bait, remember that Republicans represent and are paid for by business. And business has always loked upon the working people as a predator looks upon prey. The Constitution has been so distorted and twisted that it would probably be more expediant to draft a new one than repair the old. This country is in sadder shape than it has ever been, and is going to get worse. If a foreign enemy attacked us and tried to force us to accept their culture, we would probably fight like hell, but yet we allow an enemy within to do the same with no answer from us except complaining. But the enemy within who would have us socially and economically subsidize their voter base is no less an enemy than Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan. And where are the veterans who one might think would rise against such? Most are clogging up the VA hospitals trying to attach themselves to the working class as disabled parasites.

One could easily agree with much that you wrote. I do agree that middle class americans need a political party because really both parties we currently have, dont really represent middle class americans. That's why when someone in the Republican party get's uppity, and starts telling us we had better be careful or the religous right, or ultra conservatives may not vote or support Bush, I think they need their heads rattled. Ronald Reagan, a great president......surprize, was a moderate Republican, he was a hawk when it came to national defense, but was definately able to attract moderate or conservative democrats. Anyone in the Republican party far right who thinks they can have it only their way are dreaming. The only way the Republcan party can survive, and be electable on a national basis, and that is the key, is to maintain the ability to attract moderates into the party. In CA, 34 % of our population is now hispanic. You had better believe that is a big reason why democrats have the upper hand here. It is also the reason the Republican Party can not survive if they want only a far right membership. That is wishful thinking, and not very realistic. Ronald Reagan had it right, it would do alot of our Republicans some good to analyize why he was so successful. While I am totally apposed to the new immigration law, if Bush didnt do it, the democrats would have. And remember, the democrats are stating he didnt go far enough. Bush is fighting to get a share of the hispanic vote, weather you or I like it or not, the Republican party must broaden their base. That means some tolorance to each other. If we cant do that, the party is doomed. Play to win, and dont be stupid, as the old saying goes.

Liberals? What are they? To find the ultimate example of a liberal, go to a good dictionary and look up the word "hippy".
One of the discriptions should be "extreme liberal". So if a hippy represents an extreme liberal, what is a hippy? Try painting him as a scavenger and see how he looks. He doesn't produce anything, he scavenges leftovers and discards from those who do. But his ultimate goal is to attach himself as a parasite to someone, usually parents or girlfriend. But mention the word "responsibility" to him and he's out the door. But the hippy is all for just about anything. Why? Because it won't cost him anything because he has nothing. All he does is pay lip service to grandoise schemes. This has far too long represented the liberal vote. They vote it in and we pay for it. The working people of this country, the very people who made and keep this country going, are being savaged to pieces. The Democrats take your money and give it to those they label less fortunate and the republicans pay off their bosses by letting them rip you off with medical care, utilities, insurance, and just about everything you need to survive a modern lifestyle. And of course, we have to support the government workers, who, if you really take it in perspective, are a social and economic class by themselves. Face it, government at all levels in this country is out of control. The people who pay the bills have only a "cosmetic" voice in government. The only thing which will work is "no compromise". And to close , being a Democrat is the first step down that liberal path toward the hippy grinning at you at the far end.

Let's take it further, I dont think you should be able to vote in this country, unless you served, or are serving your country in the military, or something comprible for those who cant do active duty. I also dont think any public fund employee should be able to vote, why, because they vote democratic like clockwork expecting a big raise from them. In other words, they are special interest, just like insider information on the stock market. Call me mean, but I dont care, I have been around far too many lazy public fund employees, good workers amoung them is a rarity, not the norm. Most people in public fund employment think they are bullet proof. So they dont perform like a private sector employee.

I agree, Aggie Dog. Public servants should realize that they have job security in that their employer will always exist. It really sickens me when they whine about people in the private sector with compatible skills and education making more money. Anyone entering a public service career has a certainty, as long as they do their work, of retiring with a decent retirement, not to mention fair benefits during their career. The tradeoff is, or should be, slightly lower pay. But what is the monetary value of job security? Ask anyone who has lost a private sector job because the job went overseas, or the company went down because of inept management. As far as your complaint of poor service from the public service, this is the result of efforts by the Democrats to turn scavengers into beneficial parasites. Again, the natural state of the hippy is a scavenger wanting to be a parasite. A beneficial parasite has to justify himself somewhat, and he resents it. This shows in the rude and uncaring service you speak of. If you apply the sliding scale along the liberal line towards the hippy at the end, you will find an explanation of all that is wrong with government service as we know it today. Government jobs have become a dumping ground for those whom the liberals would convert, if not into parasites feeding off the public, into beneficial parasites who have a public service job in name only.
[quote] Lawyers are nothing but whores. They serve whoever pays their asking fee. They dispise the words "right" or "wrong" and prefer the gray areas between where they thrive, feeding off the misfortune of others. They serve as attack dogs for those who would dominate and intimidate others. Their natural environment is chaos, where they greedily dart about, feeding not to satisfy mere hunger, but to attack and destroy simply because the opportunity is there. They can never satisfy their greed, because so long as anything remains, they want it. They create problems just so they will have to be paid to solve them, and they have twisted and turned the legal process until no person can understand it but themselves. They have attached themselves to the fabric of society in such a way that no germ or virus could ever hope to attach itself to any host.

So what you are saying is that almost everyone who has chosen to serve the public interest is lazy and inept? You sound a little bitter to me. Personally I have met just as many idiots in the private sector as the public. The fact of the matter is that you think public employees should be payed less because you are not one, if you were you would be singing a different tune.

You make some very interesting points and your references are supportive of your arguement. I must admit that I do see validity in your arguement. However, I maintain that there is no organized conspiracy. Education is dominated by liberals because liberals are fiscally supportive of edcation and the unions that the educators belong to. The college professors that write the text books we use are bound by restrictions on reality that have been created through the frivolous lawsuits of thousands of liberal parents that do not want their child to be exposed to the truth. Too many factors come into play in the realm of education to lay the blame on a conspiracy within education. If you broaden your arguement to include all of American society I would agree that a conspiracy exists - and those in charge call themselves Democrats.

Personally I have met just as many idiots in the private sector as the public.[/quote]



Ranger1



Having worked for nearly 50 years, divided about equally between the private sector and local government, I would have to agree. No one will ever convince me that the private sector is always more efficient than the public. Large businesses in particular are rife with bureaucracy, waste, and featherbedding. It's popular to beat up on government employees, and some deserve it, but it's unfair to generalize.



Paul

AggieDog & jbones,

I just love it when people talk out of a paper ass! I was a "public fund employee" for 27 yrs. as a Dep Sheriff. You're telling me that I ALWAYS vote for Dems. because I'll get a raise. What a crock of s#$t. I've ALWAYS voted Rep.! So what does that do to your generalizations about public employees? Are you going to have volunteer police? Or volunteer firemen in large cities? Volunteer teachers? Etc., etc.
Good workers are a rarity in public service? Their lazy? If you knew what you were talking about I could debate your point of view, but it's obvious you don't. I shouldn't vote? Kiss it! Being a cop didn't make me better than anyone else, so where do you get off thinking I shouldn't be able to vote. Looking at it from your perspective; people who work for defense contracters shouln't be able to vote either, or the military- they accept public monies. Get a life!

Qtip
Soli Deo Gloria!
To God Alone Be The Glory!

Twenty seven years with your eyes tight shut. What powers of observation! To serve and protect? Did you try to retire with disability so you'd get 100%? Has nothing to do with how you vote, it's your thinking that matters. My personal view is that the criminal shouldn't worry about the cop, he should fear an armed and prepared citizen. I also believe that we as citizens delegate police powers to law enforcement, as we delegate all public service, due to the very fact that we are too busy trying to earn our own keep in this world. But then there are those who view cops as vicious attack dogs on leashes held by their political bosses who are bought and paid for by business lobbies. Your misconception of what we said is something I would hope you didn't have when you were on patrol. I remember during 9-11 when I saw all those NYC cops at WTC on overtime. But let's get it clear now, I am not bashing all cops just because I write this. If the shoe fits, wear it. But be aware that it does fit a lot of people.

Fireman, and police I dont consider in the same class as other public fund. To each his own, I interact about 85 % of the time with the public fund, they are the ones who gave me my opinion, not me. If they got off their butts and worked, I would see it different.

I bet there is a whole bunch of you guys shocked someone like me is a native Californian.........LOL We have our rednecks too, boys, and I'm one of them......take care.

A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money.
-- G. Gordon Liddy
Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
-- James Bovard, Civil Libertarian (1994)

Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries.
-- Douglas Casey, Classmate of W.J. Clinton at Georgetown U. (1992)

Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
-- P.J. O'Rourke, Civil Libertarian

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
-- Frederic Bastiat, French Economist (1801-1850)

Government's view of the economy could be summed up

in a few short phrases:

If it moves, tax it.

If it keeps moving, regulate it.

And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
-- Ronald Reagan (1986)

I don't make jokes.

I just watch the government and report the facts.

-- Will Rogers


If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free.
-- P.J. O'Rourke

If you want government to intervene domestically, you're a liberal.

If you want government to intervene overseas, you're a conservative.

If you want government to intervene everywhere, you're a moderate.

If you don't want government to intervene anywhere,

you're an extremist.
-- Joseph Sobran, one-time Editor of the National Review (1995)