Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Separate optics thread for E

"I think E really believes what he preaches"



That is the scary part.



After thinking about it,I do agree that E would be missed if he was no longer here.He does make a real effort to contribute ,even if much of it is misinformation based on heresay.

Stubble, I think posts like the one you started this thread with are totally un-needed and absolutely lack class.

We all can have different opinions about "facts" as we believe them, but personalizing it is not productive at all. I think the only one that gets a warm fuzzy is you. Congrats.

Also, what Matt said.

Bill

I have mixed emotions about this thread. I put E on my ignore list quite some time ago when I realized that almost nothing that he posted came from personal experience but was rather regurgitated information prefaced by "It's my understanding........, My sources tell me............. According to Optics for the Hunter..........., An optics expert says........, and According to Leupold........., etc. This , in and of itself, is not necessarily bad if it is meant to impart general knowledge to the less informed. However, when it blatantly biased toward one maker to the extent that it is, I have to doubt either his intelligence or his motives. I think E probably has a lot of time on his hands and likes to be considered an "expert". So rather than read his annoying PR pieces, simply put him on ignore.

Those that enjoy reading his posts either don't know any better or agree with him. In case you didn't notice, those people are in the majority. Any forum develops specific cliques over time. This forum is a Remington 700, Pac-Nor barrel, McMillan Swirly stock, Leupold scope forum. Post a picture of one of those and half the members will swoon. Try suggesting that one of those choices aren't the "Best" and you will quickly incur the wrath of the general population. I currently don't have any of the above (except a Leupold 2x7 from Premier on a Model 99), but I know better than to suggest a Model 70 or a Kreiger or a High Tech or a Euro scope might be better because it will just cause an argument and most people aren't interested, they already have their minds made up. That's O.K. They come here to enjoy themselves and converse with their peers and friends. It's like a club. It's all good!

I have no need to be considered an expert. I visit this forum because I learn a lot here. There are many very experienced hunters and shooters that have experienced things that I have not. I appreciate it when they share that knowledge. If it conflicts with my experience, I simply ignore it. But I sure wouldn't want to see the flow of information, as long as it's civil, interrupted. Rick runs a first class operation, the best I've seen, and the majority of the posters are great. We don't want to segregate them, even if we dont agree with some of them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Come on guys, i'm sure stubblejumper was just trying to start a funny thread.

Damn you Deltahunter, this is all your fault with your %^^%$ free beer DKHTFASDC meeting idea <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Stubble had one too many and now look at this!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Man, I know free beer meetings lead to no good <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Aic

Old Dog,

If you've had differing experiences, why not just belt 'em out?

John

Aicman-You are right with your assessment.Since things have been slowing down since the hunting seasons are over I was adding a little humour to this board.Since most of us here are used to E's antics and wind him up on a regular basis I did not anticipate anyone getting their underwear in a knot like some people apparently have.For the most part the majority of responses took this thread as it was meant the exception being those that aren't familiar with E's antics and one or two people that I have had differences of opinion with in the past that took this opportunity as an excuse to take a shot at me.

John, all that does is lead to a pissing match. I don't feel the need to be right or to correct someone else. If I feel that what is said is a misstatement of fact, I might speak up, but if it's a matter of opinion, everyones entitled to one. I have no interest in starting an argument. I get enough of that at work. I'm here to enjoy myself. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I doubt that you would appreciate being singled out like you singled him out. E is OK. He has opinions and a great deal more real world experience than most here I venture to say. He has tested in the wilderness the very products he touts and they work best for him and could work for many others. He happens to be passionate about optics. How about a new thread apologizing to him?

Old Dog -If you have personally observed events that differ from those on this board please feel free to share them with us.If you simply relate actual first hand experiences as they happened there is no excuse for a pissing match to start.Pissing matches usually break out as a result of opinions,rumors or heresay that can't be substanciated.

Slasher posted

"E is OK. He has opinions and a great deal more real world experience than most here I venture to say.



Others posted





"First hand experience! You gotta be kidding me."



"I have mixed emotions about this thread. I put E on my ignore list quite some time ago when I realized that almost nothing that he posted came from personal experience but was rather regurgitated information prefaced by "It's my understanding........, My sources tell me............. According to Optics for the Hunter..........., An optics expert says........, and According to Leupold........., etc. This , in and of itself, is not necessarily bad if it is meant to impart general knowledge to the less informed. However, when it blatantly biased toward one maker to the extent that it is, I have to doubt either his intelligence or his motives. I think E probably has a lot of time on his hands and likes to be considered an "expert".





" I wish he would at least look thru some of the scopes he talks about, it would probably give him more credance on the subject."



" E is a stubborn SOB who relies way too much on second hand knowledge and old information. If he had more first hand experience with some of the products we talk about, I'd probably be more inclined to listen to what he had to say"



"It is just my opinion, but I do lend a lot more credibility to people that post first hand experience along with supporting evidence. E likes to quote other's experience rather than his own, but that is not all that bad. He has quoted so much of Barness' book to me that now I don't have to buy it. "







You will notice that not one of those quotes is mine but it does appear that the majority of people disagree with your statement.



As I said twice before this entire thread stated out as a little humour following up several previous threads on this board that most of us are familiar with and took part in.I never anticipated that anyone would get their panties in a knot like a few people apparently have.If you are that sensitive I suggest that you put me on ignore as I wouldn't want to cause you any more stress than I already apparently have.

No stress here at all. What you did was not humorous. The result was to ostracize and humiliate E. If you will hit your ignore button on E, that will solve the problem.

Jeez guys it's pretty obvious this was done in jest hence the smiley face on the post. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Old Dog (great name BTW),

These are my sentiments exactly. If you've not gotten the results from a technique or piece of gear that others are claiming, that is a very relevant data point for those who are looking for information!

John

Stubblejumper, John, I understand what you are saying. When a poster asks a question on a topic with which I have personal experience, I feel free to post with the results that I have observed. If you read my posts, I think you'll find that I am more than happy to contribute if I feel I have something to contribute.

What I will not do is post just to be posting, quote others, or disagree with someone's personal opinion, just because mine is different. Everyone has a right to their opinion and it matters not a whit, to them or to me, if it differs from mine. That's why I make every attempt to keep my opinions to myself on the "best" posts. They are very subjective and deteriorate quickly.

It is infuriating to read posts that make factual claims that are based on popular opinion, third party assertions and personal bias (not experience). Rather than get into an argument that has no chance of enlightening either party, I simply refrain from posting. To keep my frustration at a manageable level, I find the "ignore" feature to be quite handy. I figure that Rick must have put it there for a reason. Wait.....does that mean that maybe he's smarter than we give him credit for?.............Nah! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I agree with slasher and Buzz. There was nothing humorous about this thread, simply a spiteful person who felt he'd increase his credibility by tearing others down.

Nice try <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />.

Kudus to E for not playing his game!

Muley stalker-You and I have had run ins in the past and you are now using this thread as an opportunity to do exactly what you are accusing me of doing.It was your advise to use the ignore button so why don't you simply follow your own advise.

Gentlemen,
There is much history (and agreement, see above) confirming the biased, sometimes unqualified comments by E. For example, on another thread concerning high end binoculars, E states:

The first half of his response is exactly the problem most folks have with his posts; theory, I understand, so and so says. However, there is nothing wrong with the second half; here is how you test, MY LEICA's, etc. Good advice and his own experience. The problem I have, not with just E but with many others, is basing your opinion (sometimes vehemently) on another's word and not experience. I've always said just like an @sshole everyone has an opinion, but sometimes folks are looking for experience not conjecture. Plus, it seems as if anytime someone asks about optic X, E shifts the discussion to Leupold or some optics test. Look through many scopes, binocs, etc and make your own decision. If someone asks here about a certain product, give them your experience with that product. Don't tell them they are a dumb ass for going that route when Leupold xyz is much better. Thats my 2 cents. That and a dollar will get you a 20 oz soda.
Hank

Simply pointing out that you are being an ass, nothing more, nothing less.

Hell, for all you know I agree with you on this topic. That isn't the issue. The issue is you taking pot shots at an individual. It sucks. For you folks who are piling on -- shame on you. If you don't agree with a guy, there is no reason to berate him, simply agree to disagree. I surely haven't seen anywhere where E has stooped to this level of drivel. You have demonstrated a basic lack of class.

Who gives a crap if you don't agree with him. He backs up what he has to say with first and second hand (oh, the horror!) information. You? When you don't agree, you have to resort to name calling and other childish behavior. THAT's mature!

BTW, I don't remember the other run-ins you mention. I'm guessing that hurts your tender ego, but such is life. You've shown your true colors and they ain't pretty.

After reading the last post by HEB, I am spurred to comment.



E states opinions both first and second hand, and generally cites sources or at least qualifies his statements when his info is second hand. In the binocular quote cited, I see nothing that is not supported as a first or second hand (opinion). I see no problems with this at all. Some choose to disagree with E or JB (or JB's research) on optics. That's fine, but they clearly place more value upon their own (opinions) than upon others (opinions) or research. FWIW, JB does actually TEST optics where most of us just have seat of the pants (opinions).



The fairly small group of posters on this board that take issue with E's stance on Leupold or Leica, generally cite the obvious superiority of their favorite flavor of optics. Yet, they usually have no further evidence other than their own (opinions) either. Yet, this group clearly favors their own (opinions) as fact and derides the (opinions) of others as stubborn, stupid, or flawed.



I think that this thread exposes a number of things about us all.



First the most important opinion to each of us is (our own) opinion. The second most important, is any opinion that agrees with our own. Third, many folks can't or won't beleive something that disputes their opinion even when it is supported by other evidence. Fourth, some people who complain vehemently about the "stubborness" of others are in fact among the most stubborn themselves.



This thread (may) have been intended as light or funny but for me, it did not read that way, and as such, is in poor taste.



That is my (OPINION)



JimF

In the binocular quote cited, I see nothing that is not supported as a first or second hand (opinion).

JimF -This whole thread was based on several threads about rifle scopes which many of us participated in .The binocular quote was actually one of E's best posts.If you hadn't read the other threads you would not understand the humour in this thread.As is often said"you had to be there"