Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Muzzle loaders in Africa...Powder question

I have seen from time to time guys on the TV hunting in Africa with Muzzle loading rifles, how do those guys get their powder and primers over there, or is Triple 7 and pyrodex and primers easily available over there or is there some other way they get their powder and primers over there? Or can they be transported with the gun in the case on the plane over?

bryguy--You most definitely CANNOT fly with loose powder or primers. Not Triple 7,not Pyrodex, not black powder, or smokeless. You cannot put ammunition inside your guncase if you are going to South Africa, either.

There is black powder manufactured in South Africa that is available there. Primers are also available, but your outfitter will have to arrange for them as well as your powder needs. Don't even think about trying to fly over with your own.

Just wondering how those guys got the stuff over there, Thanks!!

There are a couple of shops in Joberg where you can get black powder. I forget the name of them but there is just a couple of gun stores there so they would be easy to find and any good PH will know where to take you to get the powder.

Zimbabwe used to have a gunstore that handled black powder but I don't know what that situation is today..

When and if you book a hunt your Safari Company will take care of that problem.

I have known of a few hunters who re-loaded loaded a few of their shotgun shells to take over with lots of black powder or even a few rounds for a normally smokeless powder round chambered in a smokless powder rifle they were also taking with the idea of breaking the ammo down once in country. No one I personally knew, mind you....

Probably not a good idea to try to smuggle explosives onto a commercial aircraft in this post 9/11 political climate....... Get caught and you'd go to jail for about 25 years.

If you can buy it here why not just......... buy it here.

Where in Africa are you going? Shops in Joburg are useless if you are landing in Windhoek.

You can legally carry bp cartridges as cargo on a plane. But you need a rifle to match so, you will need a second gun.

Loose powder on a plane is strictly a no-go deal.

Brent

Brent,

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure that you can't even carry BP cartridges on a commercial passenger aircraft. - I think you can however carry it that way on a freight only commercial flight. I'd strongly advise anyone contemplating moving BP from one country to another to check on the appropriate airline website for exact regulations and to stick to those like glue.

Also print the regulations and take them with you when you travel.

Yes, you are wrong about that. The homework has been done and there is no doubt about it.

A friend with connections researched this and published this in a Dixie Gunworks Newsletter and in BPCN.

Brent

Are you sure that refers to all commercial airlines? - It might have changed but I do remember that a while ago you were permitted to carry it on domestic US flights but not on international flights........... I also remember the UK Air Navigation Order and Carriage of Dangerous Goods act forbid any BP on commercial passenger flight and that similar regulation also applies at least to European based airlines......... and to be honest, I'd be very suprised if things got easier with this kind of thing.

Steve; Loaded BP cartridges are not an issue on commercial flights. jorge

Check the bottom of this page:

http://www.mynssa.com/image/downloads/firearm-transport.pdf

or this page:

http://safetravel.dot.gov/index_ammunition.html

Or the 4th para of this page:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/commerce/DangerousGoods/news/notices/15.htm

I'd strongly advise checking the individual airline's website for their requirements before travelling with BP

Or the last para of section 2 here:

http://www.nysrpa.org/airportwarning.htm

I'm fairly sure that US domestic flight of less than a certain fairly limited size/weight do allow BP transportation but other than that, it's illegal.

I haven't checked, but if I remember correctly, the reasoning behind the ban is that they classify ordinary powder as highly flammable and BP as explosive. Whilst one catagory is permissable on commercial passenger aircaft the other is not.

Sharpsguy who posts here, just got back from a hunt in RSA and he used a Sharps 45-100BP to hunt with. He traveled with loaded BP cartridges and there were no issues. Another good, sure-fire source is to go to the SCI website or call. They would confirm. jorge

Jorge,

I'm sure it happens, if only through the ignorance of check in agents, but FWIW, I just made a personal call (ain't skype wonderful) to the senior risk assessment officer of a certain very large airline in the UK and they confirmend that ALL black powder and detonators etc are banned from ALL international commercial flights everywhere in the world......... which is pretty much what the links I posted also said. - If SCI say otherwise, they might need to do a little more research.

All that said, I should in all fairness say that although they're usually pretty good, they have been known to be wrong on occasion!

I'd still strongly advise anyone contemplating taking BP onto any commercial flight to check with the individual airline and get it in writing. Don't forget that the regulations are there for a very good reason. It's not just the penalties of being caught one needs to consider, it's the possible consequences of what can happen if something goes wrong. - Remember value-jet and the oxygen generators a few years ago.

For those that don't:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592

I'm sure that with your incredible flying career you of all people will appreciate the point I'm trying to make with that one...........

No worries Steve, I was just passing on what some of the BP "geeks" have told me about taking loaded rounds to Africa. The chances of me taking BP to Africa are about as high as me voting for the current Marxist running for President. Africa is serious hunting (and money) and I need every angle I can use. A scoped 300 H&H Model 70 is about as "traditional" as I'll ever get on Safari. jorge

I'm sure that some people load the powder into cases and pass it off as ordinary ammo but personally I think that's beyond incredibly stupid, it's actually (bleeping) criminal........ for both of the reasons I mentioned above...... If they get caught, they'll regret it big time and if they cause an incident such as the Value Jet one, then the situation will be a million times worse...... and as a spin off from that the first thing that'll probably happen would be a ban of transport of ALL ammo.

tick, tick, tick. Wonder where the BP aficionados are to chime in and present their views and personal experiences? jorge

steve, you are presuming a lot and knowing very little. The issue was pursued up the chain of authorities in Washington DC, through the FAA via the DOT. It ain't just hypothetical. There is documentation.

Make up your own fantasies as you wish. I don't really care. Your opinion means squat while the FAA's opinion means rather a lot.

But carry on.

Brent

Brent,

Hold on Bwana, I'm not attacking you, I'm expressing an honestly held opinion based on a great deal of personal experience of the commercial aviation industry. I wasn't always a full time PH. I worked for one of the largest commercial airlines in the world for many years. first as an avionics engineer, (the youngest they ever recruited) then as a loadmaster, then in various parts of aviation security often having to deal with some very odd Governmental and military organisaions and latterly as co-ordinator of a specialist aviation security related unit at (arguably) the busiest airport in the world. I've worked on a wide variety of aircraft types including 737s, 747s, various Airbus variants and Concorde on my time. - How did you think I was able to pick up the phone and call the person I mentioned? - They'd hardly be in the phone book would they?

I've also posted four links that agree with my opinion.

Perhaps you could direct me to the FAA regulations/documentation and if you can, perhaps you could explain to me quite why they might disagree with the links I posted?

I repeat, I'm not attacking you etc.