Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Bullet weight - Retained weight = lead lost in Big Game!- PIC

I just may start to think about things differently...

Example 1: Shoot a 180gr Accubond in a Mule Deer (which I've done before). Find the bullet. If it weighs 108gr. (one of mine does). Then weight retention = 60%. That may mean that 40% of the bullet is in toxic lead and/or other metals of micro and macro fragments throughout the deer. Refer to Video Study that shows this from the other thread.

Example 2: Same as above but the bullet passes through. If average stated weight retention is 65%, then that may mean that 35% of the bullet is in toxic lead and/or other metals of micro and macro fragments throughout the deer. Refer to Video Study that shows this from the other thread.



Talk about a difference. Many people may change their mindsets.

How many entire bullets could you eat before it gave you lead poisoning? I suggest you open a few boxes and instruct your next of kin to let us know.

I quoted you above, because, essentially, you're telling me to kill myself. That's pretty sick and extreme. I hope that my children never happen on this site. Please do us a favor and think before you speak.

I'm just expressing a different way of thinking, shared by some (clearly not all) of my fellow hunters and those of us who donate meat to homeless shelters for a good cause. Do you donate to your local community?! Anyways, I will turn the other cheek and say, best wishes.

How much of the bullet is lost in intestine, bone and other parts that I don't eat anyway?

Excellent point. Hopefully, most of it. It's just that is not always the case as the studies prove. Unfortunately, the studies have shown lead particles everywhere. With bones broken even more potential for lead contamination.

Further, all the animals that feed on the guts are at risk and the Condor study demonstrates that with dead Birds of Prey.

I'm just saying, we should be open-minded about these things, especially if we donate meat, live in areas where other animals will eat the remainders and if we care about our own long-term health of ourselves and family. Look how long it took for us to prove that Asbestos, lead, lead paint, DDT and other products were harmful and toxic. We're at a new junction where we have excellent other bullet choices available (e-Tip, TSX, TTSX, GX-Hornady etc.). Why are the bullet makers finally changing? They see the light or realize the dangers or were lucky...

Hey, you seem to have learned the basic math skills set. Good for you. Unfortunately, you are missing rest of the essentials of reasoning power. You are assuming, without any evidence, that all of the shed lead is retained within the edible portions of your kill. You are also assuming, without any evidence, that consumption of those particles by humans results in the absorbtion of all of those particles by the human.

While it does appear that the lead fragments have an effect on condors and, likely enough, other avian scavengers, your previously cited studies show that the particles don't have any particular effect on human consumers.

Too bad you are too young. Were we in the bygone days of leaded gasoline, lead-based paint, soldered tin cans, and the like, there might be grounds for concern. Perhaps, when you finish your education, you can seek out old hunters and examine their blood lead levels to see if the use of lead core bullets back when there were so many other sources of available lead managed to push their levels to unacceptable lead titers.

brooksrange,
Thank you for the post! If it just opens one persons eyes it was well worth it. To me its all about the kids and keeping them safe/lead free...

I'm pretty sure it won't kill you, then again who knows. I'm all for a definitive study. Bottom line is that you are of the opinion that hundreds of years worth of people eating game killed with lead projectiles with no ill effects is somehow preempted by a couple of highly biased studies. My guess is that you are an environmentalist turd that is looking to stir the pot. This is a non-issue to all but the most foolish of shooters and yet you continue to harp on the issue as if you are looking out for everyone's best interests. Bickering over this bullet or that failing, weight retention, blah, blah... Dead is dead and that is the end game of a successful hunt. How many ppm of lead may be in the meat is inconsequential if it doesn't create any harmful effects.

brooksrange,
Is there a chance that you could at least start putting these lead/unleaded posts of yours in the "hunters campfire" or something more applicable?

RupertBear, I'm speachless...In the last 5 min., I've been threatened to go kill myself and now you are patronizing and denegrating me openly with a personal attack?!?

I now know who the uneducated (among other things) really are...you should both be ashamed of yourselves...hope your family reads what you posted here.

This is the General Big Game forum and this post is in the right place.

Yes, this is the right place. Too bad I still dont agree with him.

These are about implications on Big Game hunting with Big Game bullets and Big Game meat- all of which may affect humans and other smaller animals...I can find hundreds of posts that fall within this range of speech.

For common courtesy to you, since you chose not to degrade or make absurd comments likened to go kill yourself, I will stop posting anymore new threads about this topic in this section. I will politely reply as I wish to those that are already here.

Pahick and STA, thank you for your understanding and reasoning. This is what freedom of expression is. I appreciate your support even if we may not agree on all topics. I will remember that.

How can you be "threatened" to go kill yourself? You are playing to the hippie/liberal norm perfectly. Unsubstantiated allegations followed by claims of knowing more than those who disagree.

You deserve no direct reply from me any longer. You crossed the line. I made my point loud and clear in my previous post. You should read it!

Come on, I lowered myself to responding to your drivel. At least answer my questions in your other post. You're kinda sensitive for an Alaskan. You get picked on a lot?

Bottle caps aren't lead. They have been found in dead condors.
Glass shards don't always contain lead - actually rarely anymore. They have been found in dead condors.
Copper isn't lead. It has been found in dead condors.

Go figure.


I'm sure I ingested more lead in the more lethal form of tetra-ethylene lead formerly used in automobile gasoline than I ever will by consuming lead-killed animals. And make sure you're not ingesting any sort of toxic chemicals in the water you drink which has passed through the polyvinyl-chloride pipes being used in every building you frequent.

You have misidentified it as an ad hominem attack. I merely recognized and commented on the likely reasons that your logic was faulty, and I pointed out both your flaws in logic and a potential study to determine whether or not past use of lead bullets for hunting in a time when people in general likely had higher blood titers of lead.

Just out of curiosity, have any blood studies of condors been done in the recent few years to see if they had higher levels of copper (also a toxicant) in their system? If, as the condor people would have us believe, the condors are ingesting lead from bullet fragments, it would also follow that they are now ingesting copper fragments because of the decreased use of lead core bullets and the increased use of copper bullets.

To be honest, lead is something I have started to think about this last year. I work as a saltwater fishing guide for 70ish days during the summer and for most of the day I am grabbing lead fishing weights. It's a very intense job with no breaks and I'm often grabbing bites of food as I'm working without washing my hands. Next season I'm going to be painting all of the lead sinkers I will be handling to avoid all that exposure to lead.

I also plan on going unleaded in my bullets.

Christopher Columbus, said the world is round and people said he was stupid and wrong.

When child car seats became law people said the government is restricting their rights.

I think people need to look out side the box. If you can cut down on known poison like lead. Why not?