Home Forums Gear Photography Stepping up from the point and shoot units??

The wife wants to step up to a decent camera as she is fond of doing wildlife stuff. Would the following be a reasonable deal at $1749.00? I can not swing a really big lens this year, but want her at least up and running to start with. Feedback really needed, as we live in the sticks and it's a 5 hr drive one-way for us to get to a camera store for comparison shopping.

Canon EOS 5D
1 GB card
EF 90-300mm f/4.5-5.6 USM Zoom Lens and
28-90mm f/4-5.6 II USM lens

Other much more experienced Camera guys I'm sure will respond but compared to my local store that doesn't seem like to bad a deal. My store had a used 5d with a battery pack and 2 batteries but no lenses for $1599. You package with 2 lenses for just a little more sounds like a better deal to me but the $1599 deal might not have been that good to compare too............................DJ

Happy Thanksgiving
Sounds like the perfect camera would be the new Nikon D90. It comes with a 18-105 VR zoom and is a 12.3 MP with a self cleaning sensor and is the only SLR under 2500.00 that shoots high Def video!!
As a member of 24 HR campfire we can get you a kit with that kit and a Nikon 70-300 VR with a case, 2 UV filters a 2 pack of 2 gig SD cards and an extra battery for only 1575.00 shipped
Contact me if you have any questions. This deal is open to every memebr of this forum, and can expect similar great deals on anything on our website
Happy Thanksgiving

Comparing a 5D to a D90 is a bad joke. Those two cameras are not even close to each other in value or IQ capabilities not to mention one is FF and the other is a crop camera.
BTW B+H is one of the few dealers that have 5D's left. If you can't afford the 24-105 buy the kit, sell the lens for $900 or so and then buy a different piece of glass. This way you will have a factory new body with a full warranty.
Used values on the gear listed by the OP;
5D $1300
I assume you meant EFS 70-300 which BTW will NOT work on a 5D. the glass value in that kit for a 5D is zero. Beware of any one trying to sell you that.
Here's a link to the best remaining buy I know of on a 5D.
Hope this helps.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/484816-REG/Canon_0296B113_EOS_5D_Digital_Camera.html

PS if you are after a great buy then consider a Canon 40D which is an absolute steal right now at $850. Add a Tamron 17-50 f2.8 at about $400 and you have a great kit. Don't get talked into card readers or tri-pods. Just buy the body, lens and card then go from there. The Canon comes with great software.

What exactly is "IQ" when referred to talking about cameras? I've seen the term but not a good definition....................DJ

IQ = Image quality
BQ = Build quality

I think Joel was saying, for the money... The camera of which he speaks is awesome.

In addition to the camera, you are buying incredible customer service. We have had amazing service from Cameraland. They truly stand behind their products. There is a great deal to be said for great customer service.

M

There is nothing "awesome" about the D90 compared to the 5D. Those two cameras shouldn't even be mentioned in the same thread. Super zooms and low end filters are best avoided no matter where you buy from or what brand. I agree good customer service is a plus but only if the "kit" is what you want.
BTW prices on the 40D are still dropping!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/518207-REG/Canon_1901B004_EOS_40D_SLR_Digital.html

I think any digital camera is awesome. The technology is amazing and the ease of use, the learning curve and all the other stuff is incredible. Most people would be very happy with the D90, especially considering the price difference.

I guess we'll have to agree to dissagree. I seriously doubt any one after a FF body would be the least bit happy with a D90 and a low end super zoom.

Stetson, I'll have to disagree with you as well.


Richard

Inane.

1minute
Joel's suggestion makes a bunch of sense from a whole bunch of different angles. You are talking about stepping from a Point and Shoot all the way to a full-frame camera, yet looking for a big bargain. The better money is always spent on the best glass.

Full frame lenses will be useable on reduced size bodies so later upgrades to FF will be no issue.

The 5D is a full one third heavier than the smaller Nikon. Miss T has problems with the weight of my camera over her smaller Rebel XT.

The 5D has no built-in flash and would require an extra part to be carried and hung on the camera and that would get old when all you need is a little fill. And that would increase the weight considerably.

The same number of pixels in half the space is not going to generate enough noise to be worth worrying about in anything short of huge enlargements. And programs are out there to reduce that greatly.

Watching Doug play with the Nikon he brings up every year has left me wondering if Canon was the right answer for us. We have
too much in lenses to swap now, but it is tempting. Some of the split-frame, in-camera, strongly back-lit images he took last year were amazing. The flash is incredibly user-friendly and did things on deck in the dark, inside the cabin and in harsh daylight that blew away my Canon 20D.

I would love to have a FF body and will someday, but I do not see it replacing the cropped image bodies for all of the above and more.
art

Stetson:

Do you walk around every day with that chip on your shoulder?

Grow up, people disagree, get used to it!

Richard

What are you 12? I could care less if you dissagree however it's completly inane to just post you dissagree. At least have a reason. Apparantly some here can't quite grasp the fact that the OP was asking about a Full Frame camera not a crop body with kit lenses. Dissagree all you like but the fact remains those two systems are worlds apart. As far as value goes a used 5D is currently $1300 and if the OP is patient they will likely be under $1000 in a few months. No comparison between the IQ from a 5D and a D90 or even a 40D for that matter. I'm starting to wonder if those who dissagree have ever owned any of the above.

I don't understand why the lady is going from a bicycle to a corvette. We haven't even heard from her on what she wants to do. Canon, Nikon, Pentax what does it really matter? What matters is the lense's she get's. I have a Nikon D70, it's a lot better picture taker than I am or probably ever will be. I use after market lense's on it and am happy with what I get. If I were to up grade today, I'd probably go with the D80. I have no real use for professional cameras. Why would this lady that has only used point and shoot so far?

You may want to read the OP again. Just a thought.
They are asking about the price on a Canon 5D. The 5D is not a "professional" camera. It's FF. Big Difference. Beyond that why worry about what some one else wants to buy?

Assumptions:
Making a step from a point and shoot to a SLR is a big one.
The 5D is a professional grade, heavy camera and as such it would be limiting how much it gets carried.
It lacks certain basics a new user would probably prefer, namely the flash.
Question:
Is it unreasonable to suggestion options outside the OP's original statement? The average buyer of a 50D or a D90 is not going to use the camera even close to its full optential. No one will use the 5D to its full potential.

The lens is the big difference, not the body. Spending the money on glass makes a lot more sense.
art

I just attended a Canon sponsored seminar (which was essentially an infomercial for Canon) and the Canon rep said for must of us, don't get the 5D. He thought for the average ameteur, the 50D was much more versatile.

You know what they say about azzumptions right?
You have no idea what the OP's experience is and he or she may have years of film experience. The 5D is not "professional grade". That's an ad for GM. Canon pro series are the 1Ds and 1DMKIII etc. Lets try NOT to give people false information. It's pretty obvious you have no experience with either the 50D or the 5D.
5D 4.4 x 6 x 3 28.6 oz
50D 4.2 x 5.7 x 2.9 25.7 oz
If you wouldn't carry the 5D over an extra 3 ounces then you need to eat more wheaties!








Agreed. That's exactly WHY that Nikon kit is a poor deal. Low end glass. As far as making suggestions outside of the scope of the original question indeed that is reasonable but it would help to actually have some experience with the cameras you are talking about or at least an opinion based on fact.

If you "just" attended a Canon seminar they would have been discussing the 5DMKII not the 5D. Further I seriously doubt any Canon rep would say such a thing about the 5D which is almost universally considered THE best body Canon has ever produced outside the one series.
The opinions of several pros that according to your seminar are all pretty misguided.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/706762

Stetson
Sorry, I forgot to spell out clearly what a good flash will add to the weight of a 5D. I thought someone of your oblivious intelligence would be able to add.

There is no doubt the 5D is a great body, but suggesting the 50D will not suffice for most NEW digital users on a budget stepping up from a point and shoot... is your typical ego.
art

You change your story more than often than a politician!
You just got caught trying to pass yourself off as an experienced user and once again the truth comes out. The 5D and many other bodies do not come with an onboard flash because for the most part they are useless. The weight of a given flash like the 580EX etc. will be equal on either body.
As far as being on a budget and claiming the 50D is better than the 40D that must be more of your superior math. Lets think about that shall we? The 40D is $800, 50D $1200. So much for the 50D being better in that department.
The 50D is not the "best" choice for a new user IMO. The higher resolution requires "L" or at least very high quality glass unlike the 40D which can utilize EFS glass and still have very acceptable IQ. Again, there goes your budget. One L lens and the 50D will put you WELL over 2k. The 40D and a fast lens like the 17-50 f2.8 tammy can be had NIB for $1300!
Add the 15MP on the 50D having a much lower tolerance for any thing less than perfect exposures, the need to be rock steady and a number of other issues like PP and it's pretty obvious that the 40D and the 5D are far more user friendly to some one getting started.
But then I've actually owned both of theese. How about you?

I guess you missed the part where I spoke to the on-board Nikon flash being significantly superior to the Canon...

I am not a geek intent on keeping up with every new model and have not owned either of the cameras mentioned. I have used them both and have played with the models up to the 50D. If I were intent on arguing with you I would spell out more. You have several times shown what a classless assclown you are and so I am out of here with the final statement that Joel was not out of line...
art

It just goes to show even a stain like you can tell the truth if you really try.
You remind me of my old dryer. That thing would get stuck on spin cycle and just go round.......and round......and round. Of course you can't blame a machine for not knowing it's beat.
Your lack of any hands on experience with the cameras being discussed will be obvious to most.

1 Minute, the deal that Joel offered you would be a terrific step up from a point & shoot. It is certainly capable of taking truly remarkable photos, and learning the full capabilities of the D90 is going to take some time.

Stetson, seeing as you don't mind letting us know what we remind you of, I know you won't mind if I let you know, what you remind me of.

When I read your sarcastic, put down posts, I think of a little man with a big mouth, & a chip on his shoulder.

Little knowledge + big mouth + having to prove himself over, & over = idiotic posts.

It's too bad we don't have an ignore list here Campfire, so many of us could simply ignore your superior attitude, and aggressively written drivel.

As for the rest of the folks here, I�ll leave it to them to read thru some of your earlier posts, too see just how genuinely mean spirited you truly are.

Respects,

Richard

Well said!

You were saying something about sarcastic drivel? What exactly have you contributed here? I'd suggest taking a look at your own posts over the few months you've been here, Art.....err I mean Richard.

PS. Open user profile, Click Ignore user.

Case Closed.

Thanks for the tip Stetson. I will check it out and start with you. You are one of the rudest people I ever ran into on here.

No Cattle
I have been accused of no less than 25 or 30 aliases here and as I posted before the most painful was being called you... Disabusal of your fantasies is of no concern to me.
just art

*** You are ignoring this user ***

From numerous and well known members at that, including a campfire sponsor!
Wonder why................

I am sure at this time the OP is probably sorry he asked.

Call Joel.

M

Does Medicare pick up the tab for your hallucinogens? Just asking...

Note to self, "Buy tin foil futures..."

OK guys, thanks for the input so far. You've talked me into it. It's going to be a Canon EOS 50D at 15 mg pixels. Yes, I'm sure they will have 20 mgs on the shelf in Kmart next year, but we have to get started. This a hobby deal for the wife, and she has absolutely no professional plans. She works hard, lets me have a lot toys and play time, and I should return those favors at least once in a while. Yes, there will be a learning curve, but learning new sh-t is about 75% of the fun in life. That being, a rejection from National Geographic will not be heart rending.

Our next step is getting at least a couple of starter lenses. Thinking of a Canon 24-105 and a 100-400mm. Any pitfalls there we should know about. 500+ mm units will have to wait a year or two.

Thanks in advance, 1Minute

with a 50D I would strongly recommend against buying non- IS lenses. You will not be pleased with the results. TIFWIW

The 24-105 f4L IS and the 100-400L IS are a good start IMO as long as you don't intend to use the 24-105 indoors a lot. Onboard flash won't help much with that FL. The 100-400 is a very nice wildlife lens for the $ with a lot of flexability. Not so much for BIF. Works well as a walk around lens at airshows as well. Agree with UL 100%. The extra resolution of the 50D shows even the slightest movement making IS and/or fast high quality glass even more desireable. The 50D is also far less forgiving when you don't nail the exposure. Post processing with my 50D files seem like more of a necessity than an option on many frames.

The EF28-135 IS f/3.5-5.6 is a walk-around lens to consider to save a few bucks. It is not an L series (full-frame compatible) lens and you would have to abandon it if you decide on a full frame body later, but many pro photographers consider it a very good lens for the money and the purpose.

I would suggest a tele converter might help in some ways, but stick to the 1.4, not the 2.0. We have both and the 2.0 is essentially worthless.

Plan on a good tripod with an upgrade head, too.

The 50D will make her very happy!
art

When you get done weeping in your wheaties about the PM's that were forworded to Rick in the past from JJ about your multiple personalities you may want to remind the OP again you have no experience with the 50D. The 28-135IS 3.5-5.6 is a low end kit lens and the 24-105 F4 IS is an L lens with a fixed aperature. The 28-135 WILL indeed work on the 5D but will be a poor match for the 50D. EF-S lenses like the 17-55 f2.8 IS will not work on a FF body. EF lenses like all the others mentioned in the last few posts (24-105, 28-135 and 100-400) will indeed work on the 5D and 5dMKII.
You may in your vast experience want to explain to the guy which lenses won't AF on the XXD series with the TC you suggested.

Might be a good time to put down the shovel, just a thought.......
Since I doubt you know what either one looks like Art, here's a quick snap of the 28-135 Vs 100-400.

the 28-135IS is a poor bargain for a 50D.
I have an older version (I hear the IS might be better now) and I'm unhappy with it's results on a 40D.
It in no way compares to an IS fixed aperture lens.

Stetson
Amazing, you have heard of PMs and you think that means something. I was literally, not figuratively, not kidding, called you as one of those "personalities". There were lots more, though none quite so distasteful.

My open interchanges with anyone are still a matter of record for anyone to search. A PM means what?

I believe you are mistaken in your attituide toward the lens mentioned and I have it from a number of folks that know quite a bit about the particular lens. I happen to have both lenses you pictured and find both useful for their intended purposes.

You really are a piece of work. I guess you forgot telling me on the phone that you posted under multiple names here because you couldn't "really" post what you wanted as a moderator. You also seem to have forgotton that You and Rick both received a copy of said PM directly from me. Try telling the truth for once Art. The bone you have to pick doesn't have squat to do with the differences in a camera or Jerky or any one of the side bar caniptions you have had since. No matter how wrong you are you still rail away. As I said before MANY well known and well respected members here know your tricks. Feel free to rail on. Your "experience" becomes more evident with every post.
Still a moderator?.............
Just askin.



Pretty much proves my point.

Guys: Thanks to Stetson and some suggestions from a few others, I just made an order. It's a Canon EOS 50D, coupled with Canon 28-135 and 100-400 mm lenses. Also picked up some extra memory and battery power. I think the wife will be happy, and hope she'll loan it out to me once in a while.

Thanks also to advice from members here, I was steered clear of some of the lowball web sellers. Seems their practice is to offer a very low bait price, but they've removed needed components (memory, batteries, chargers, cables, software, etc) from the factory box and upon contact, offer them up at inflated value. If one resists, they find they are suddenly out of stock for your order. That said, ALWAYS surf up some outside reviews on unknown sellers. I think I avoided about 3 pitfalls this morning by following that advice.

Thanks again, 1Minute

Hope we get to see some photos from your neck of the woods!

WOW!!!
"You really are a piece of work. I guess you forgot telling me on the phone that you posted under multiple names here because you couldn't "really" post what you wanted as a moderator. You also seem to have forgotton that You and Rick both received a copy of said PM directly from me. Try telling the truth for once Art.'

Show any multiple postings, any! There are none and never have been. If I told you I posted as more than one individual it was purely in jest or in sarcasm. I do not remember saying that and it is not true, period.

Further, I never received any such PM from you, period.
art

1minute
I think you will like your decisions... I called a couple photgrapher friends and asked about the 28-135 and what they thought of it today, compared to when they suggested it when we bought ours several years ago. They both restated they are convinced it is a very good lens for the job and especially for the money.

We have the 17-40, 70-200 and 100-400 in the L series and like all of them. The non-Canon lenses have been problematic... It seems Canon does stuff to make it difficult for other manufacturers to compete...

There is no free lunch and the web sellers include some real dirtbags...
art

LOL yeeaaaaaaaaaah. CYA Art.
Still a moderator?

And we were like really tight and you would be the first (and only) person I would tell! Yeaaaaaaaahhhh....

Delusional!

I wasn't the only person you spouted off to now was I? Talk to JJ lately? The fact that you seem so proud about your "25-30 aliases" speaks volumes. I don't exactly see the other parties involved jumping in here to save your A++.
Still waiting to hear your expertise on the TC compatability and whether or not your still a moderator. I'm guessing not or my posts probably would have already been altered.
Hopefully the "pros" telling you about the 28-135 are not the same ones that gave you that great intel about lens compatability with FF....or the size of the 5D....or the weight of the 5D...or.....
I can't imagine what you have against the OP to give him such consistantly false and poor advice. I trust you at least told him the lens hood doesn't come with the 28-135. After all if you have one you surely know that and whether or not the TC will AF with it.

OK, I'm NOT an experienced photographer but I just went through about the exact same decision process that the original poster went through. FWIW I have a few observations here but keep in mind they are from someone just getting started.
Despite the advice from a couple people not to I went ahead and got the Canon 50d over a 40d and 5d. The 40d is a better deal and a couple hundred less expensive but I saw a couple of features with the 50d that I thought would be worth a couple hundred extra. The rear screen has much higher resolution and is better for checking your shots than the older screens were. The kids I was photographing would pose and then run over to see thier picture - having the better screen was cool.
It's probably stupid but I wanted a camera that had the same or better number of megapixels than my point and shoots. I have a G9 that does 12.7 so it seemed a step back going with a 10.1mp 40d.
I like the way you can fine focus the 50d using your computer.
I wanted the same processor in case I decide later to upgrade to a 5d MKII.
The 5d didn't have a self cleaning sensor, the 50d does.
I'm sure that the 5d would probably take better pictures but I was just a little leery of a used camera - the person I talked to in the store was.

The pop-up flash on the 50d is pretty much as has been mentioned here: mostly useless with the L lenses. They are big enough that they cast a shadow under the flash. My next purchase will probably be a better flash.

I tried a Tamron 28-75 f2.8 lens and didn't get that great of pictures out of it. The faster speed was good but the 50d wanted to shoot either too high an ISO or too low a shutter speed. You kinda have to watch both.

So far the best shots I got were with the 24-105L f/4, but they were outside shots. I still have more experimenting to do with the f/2.8 speed lens. If you were going to start out with one lens I'd go with the 24-105l f/4 IS to start with.

-- just some camera thoughts just in case they might help.


A couple comments about Sitka Deer and Stetson. Even though I've had a couple "extended disagreements" with Sitka Deer about LOP and whatever he has still been extremely helpful about wood finishes, adjusting triggers etc.. Even though we don't always agree I've probably learned more from Sitka than anyone else here on the forum.
Stetson has been VERY helpful to me about the camera's even though I bought the body he recommended against. On the forum and with PM's he's gone out of his way to help me out.

In short I know that both Sitka and Stetson are good helpful posters here, I hope that even though they disagree they can work it out. Both have with me............................DJ