Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 257 WBY or 300 Win Mag as the all around western rifle?

John,

I've been watching this thread and was honestly afraid to state my opinion; an opinion that is based on many years of guiding and lots more years of killing western big game animals.

The thread was totally pro-300Mag. In my mind that is not realistic, nor does it smack of experience in the field.

In my guiding, we tended to shuffle paid-hunters who arrived with a .300Mag and larger to the wranglers or beginning guides. This was mostly because we who had guided for a while didn't need the hassle. Frankly, we had few visiting hunters who could shoot a 300Mag and larger long magnums well enough to cleanly kill an elk.

Simply stated, the guys were used to shooting whitetails with .270s, .308s and .30-'06s and were scared of their brand new .300 Magnums. The writing gurus had convinced them that elk were bulletproof, huge beyond belief and impossible to kill with lesser cartridges.

What they did not know was that the average western guide had killed many more elk than the average eastern-scribbler and that the guides would have simply asked them to bring the rifles to which they were more accustomed.

Heck, most of us carried .308s, .270s and .30-'06s, with the exception of our cook, who always managed to cleanly kill an elk every year with her .250 Savage. It doesn't take a cannon, it takes a single fairly well-placed shot.

I have shot thousands of rounds through the various .300 Mags and I find them accurate and immensely interesting. I shoot the .300Mags well off of the bench, but I'm not a good field shot with them. That's it in a nutshell; the various .300 Magnum cartridges are just above my personal physical limitation to shoot well in the field.

I've guided a few hunters who shot .300 Weatherby rifles superbly on big game. And I totally envy them their ability.

Probably I haven't mentioned it before on the Campfire (mostly because it isn't PC), but I have killed several elk quite cleanly with the .25-'06 and 100-grain bullets. I've never shot a single head of them twice; each simply received a single bullet through both lungs or under the ear and they died most rickey-tick.

The .257 Weatherby would be more of the same, only better.

Obviously, the .257 Weatherby is superb on mule deer, whitetail and, for pity's sake, it has American pronghorn written all over it. There is probably no better commercial cartridge for prairie goats.

You rightly pointed out that the average guy shoots meat elk. And that comment includes Karen and myself. Karen has killed about twenty elk and only one was a smallish bull; the rest were cows and we want to eat the meat, so we always chose ones that were under three years old, if we could.

Most of my elk were cows, as well. You know the number, my friend, but I will never state it on the Campfire because most would not believe and the remainder would think me a game hog. We ate all of them and found needy homes for any shred of elk meat that we could not eat.

Would the .257 Weatherby be suitable for elk? Absolutely. Given the higher velocity, I would tend to use the 120-grain Nosler Partition and just go hunt.

Mountain sheep, goats and caribou??? Heck yes. If there is a doubt, just Partition-up.

Anyway, Roomie John, thanks for bring reason, logic and experience back into this cyber-thread.

Your buddy Steve

I cannot disagree with JB or Dogzapper.

So, just use the 257 Roy and the 375 Ouch and Ouch.

Then PM me and let's talk turkey on Boolits.

I have 3 308s that need feeding . . . . . (grin).

BMT

Thanks, Rooms. I would probably go with the 120 Partition myself as en elk bullet in the .257 Wby., just because I know it would penetrate plenty AND kill quickly with any decent heart-lung shot.

One of the better stories I've heard was a couple years ago at the Bozeman gun show. A young guy came by our table and told me he had a .257 Roberts, a Remington 722 just like the one I inherited from my grandmother. His wife drew a cow elk permit that year, and she didn't like the way his rifle kicked (can't remember what it was, maybe a 7mm Remington). So he loaded up some 115 Partitions for the .257 and told her to be very careful, shoot the cow BEHIND the shoulder.

They went out and eventualy got within 200 yards of a big cow. When she shot, the elk did a total face-down, right there. They walked up, and he found that the .257 had punched through both shoulders. When they skinned the cow, the expanded Partition was under the hide on the far side.

Of course a lot of other good bullets would do something similar, but I always get a laugh out of the hunters who claim the Partition is "too soft" or doesn't retain enough weight.

My friend Dennis Slade (dennisinaz here) has had several experiences with cow elk and the .250 Savage and, I believe, 100-grain Partitions, all clean 1-shot kills. Maybe he will chime in as well.

Incidentally, I CAN shoot a .300 Weatherby well in the field, but much prefer to shoot a .257 Weatherby. The .257's also a very easy cartridge to get to shoot extremely accurately--as, in my experience, are all the .25's. In fact I may be getting a second .257 Roy here pretty quick.

I use and like 300 win mags as well as a 257 Weatherby,there is really one significant difference in the field, my 257 shoots a lot flatter.

How flat? I don't even have to use my B&C reticle to hit deer sized critters in the vitals until I get to an honnest 500 yards where the very first stadia line is dead on.

This means a guy can use a regular reticle with his 257 Weatherby and pretty much point and shoot with little thought as to range out to a quarter mile or so.

Frankly,in the real world game does not always stand still long enough for us to range it precisely with a laser and then dial in or use dots to compensate for range. It's justs these times when you can quickly get into a solid field position and put a well placed shot into the vitals of any critter that 99% of us have any buisness shooting with a 257 Weatherby.

I use mostly two bullets in my 257,115 grain balistic tips for deer and 120 Partions for bigger stuff,I don't even have to rezero,they group in the same little clusters in my Vanguard.

RD

+1

If you have to reach out there a little bit for elk, a well constructed bullet from the 257 will flat out kill an elk!

Interesting discussion, and one that always brings out lots of opinions. Much like was mentioned I find it interesting that so many western hunters as they get older reduce the caliber they use for general hunting as opposed to when they were younger. My father in law is a western hunter (Wyoming,Colorado,Utah) and he is a perfect example. When he was a young man in Wyoming he shot a 338WM and a 300WM because that is what he thought he needed to kill big elk and mule deer. Over the years he has transitioned through many calibers only to settle on the 25-06. I cant count how many deer and elk he has killed with that 25-06, but its been a bunch. He has yet to see a negative with using that 25 caliber for his hunting, but he is also a great shot and loves the tack driving accuracy he gets out of the 25 as well as the reduced recoil. I cant see the need of a 30 with the quality of bullets available today and since bears is not in the equation (like it is up here), I cant see needing a 300 WM when the 257 Roy provides you much better trajectory. The Caribou I shot a few weeks ago with my 257 Roy really enlightened me, and I cant see any moose not succoming to the 257 Roy via TSX, and wouldn't hesitate for one second to take a variety of shots at one given the opportunity. Tis nice to have choices, and this is definately one in whch you choose the caliber you want as opposed to need!

I'm happy with my 25-06, 270s, 280, 308s, 30-06s, 35 Whelen, and 45-70s.

Now, which platform?

Mark 5 fibermark? Stainless 700 SPS? Stainless Vanguard Back Country?

Personally I'd go either 700 or Vanguard.

Dober

300 mag. Have a buddy I stuff a fair amount of RL22 into the case and top with a 168 tsx. Shot a deer that was running a doe the other day, appx 150ish yard shot trying to kill the trash before he bred her, and ended up snapping a bad shot. Touched NO ribs. Totally flank. Hit no spine etc..... Total bang flop.

And IF you need some more stomp, its easy to run up to 220s.... can't do that with a 257 though I'd like to have a 257 stw just because...

Jeff

All this talk about the 257 Weatherby is making me want one. It is tempting to try out one of those plain jane $399 jobbers.

Well now, if the 25s kill elk effectively with a 100 grain Partition, I think the choice is obvious: the 243 Winchester with a 100 grain Partition. Shoots flat, penetrates deep, less recoil, short action, dual purpose, easy to find ammo.....I'm only kidding a little bit, as that combo is tempting me more each day.

Thats what happened to me!

It's good to see others with the same sickness.

Enjoy your new toy.

I was afraid of that. What happened?

Already have, 9 days after I bought it........

Steve- A friend that guides for sheep and bears in BC echoed your sentiment on the magnums about a month ago. He said he had a guy show up with a 300WBY and could pretty much guarantee how the thing was going to go. He'd seen it too many times in the past, and, sure enough, he flinched so bad on the first shot the bullet nearly missed the mountain....*L*

I'm in no way implying that we don't have gaggles of gents here that can handle the larger magnums - we do, I just got a chuckle from 2 guys that I admire and respect their experience and opinions having quite similar takes on this subject.

zapper...

Unfortunately I run into your way of thinking regarding the guys who show up with a 300 all to often and have gotten the "bum's rush" on several occasions. I shoot these well in the field and find them to be pop-guns, compared to what I shot commonly for bigger, tougher game for years.

BUT, I can see where you come from on this. When I guided for a short while (short out of choice )I used to have the hunter sight in his rifle before the hunt...check everything. I would look over his rifle and admire it just before he was to take a shot at the target, then hand the rifle to him, "all ready to go". It in fact would have an empty chamber.

I had one guy from Pennsylvania with his new 300 Win flinch so bad that he threw the gun 10 feet, as he lunged forward at the "snap"! Guess why I didn't last long in the business??

I see what happened. You went gonzo. I would like the remington much better, however I would have to take the chance that the cheap vanguard would shoot.

The SPS model is pretty cool, but no where near $399...