Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Scout Rifle???

I'd built one years ago, it started out as a Remmy Mohawk in 308. I sent the barreled action to Geoff Beneze (Whatever happened to that guy?) and had a Ching Ring installed. Put a Loopy 2.5 IER scope on it, then had it stocked later... It was a handy rifle, and worked pretty good out to 200 yards, which in reality takes care of 95% of what we all need a rifle to do. The things that pissed me off about the platform was the forward mounted scope. If you have sun behind you (over your shoulders) you ain't going to get a shot off, thats all there is to it.

Truthfully, my Kimber Montana in 308 wearing a fixed 4 Loopy is a better rifle, all the way around.

Loading from stripper clips is highly over-rated. Other that in social situations, when are you going to need more than 5 rounds to handle something. If you find yourself in that situation, you should have grabbed for an AR15 or HK91 instead.

eremicus and dan adair hit the high and low points of the concept, as i see it...

one handed carry at the action is useful...
sun behind you with a forward mounted scope is not...

i've played with a couple of scouted military bolt rifles, as well as the savage and the steyr...
a carbine of some sort with a receiver sight is probably the best answer to the question, "what is a scout rifle?"
as bmt pointed out, levers serve admirably...

i agree with most of cooper's thoughts and theories on the subject... i differ though, in my view of the steyr scout... it could have been better executed...
steyr, in attempting to fit their product into cooper's rigid format for the concept sold a rifle that was excellent under certain circumstances...
but that's not what the scout concept is about.....

Although I don't really care for the scout concept, I have one. Mine was made from a M48 mauser. It has a Boyd's stock and a scout scope mount with a Burris scope on it. It works great. My son got his first boar with it.

Its easy to convert back to its original condition. The 8mm is more powerful and maybe a tiny bit heavier than Cooper specifified, but he was basically a paid hack for the gun magazines so a little caliber change didn't bother me in the least.

However, given a choice, I'd take my 30-06 commercial FN mauser with its traditionally mounted 2-7 Burris scope hunting any day. The M-48 scout is a great back up or loaner gun though.

My all around rifle meets my needs as a "scout" if I needed to slap it with a gunrag and marketing name.

It is a Tikka T3 Lite stainless in .308. With 3 or 5 round detachable mags it meets my needs for a quick reload if that was ever necessary.

I had the barrel cut to an even 20"s for to be a little handier.
It is topped with a 4.5x14 Leupold LR that was sent back to Leupold to have an M1 elevation turret installed. It is mounted in Talley lightweights.

While I had intended to use a 2.5x8, I have found this 4.5x14 to be so handy it has remained. Overall it is a super handy, scary accurate rifle that handles my needs from coyote calling at close range to making hits on other targets at long range.

It is all I need in the all around/scout rifle. In fact this fall it has quickly become a favorite.

I built mine from a Mauser 98 long action, with stripper clip guide, installed a shilen barrel chambered it in 308 and cut the barrel to 20 inches, with muzzlebrake, a timney trigger set at 2lbs, glassbedded in a ramline stock, and installed a burris LER 2.75 scope. I reload 130 gr bullets. The rifle is light, fast, accurate and a great back up. I call it my "Ranch Rifle". Very handy for shooting jackrabbits, squirrels, and coyotes out to 350yds. I zero it at 200yds. I've killed 2 deer with it (170yds, 60yds). It's not my first choice. It's primary function is to develop my shooting skills and reaction time. It's my scouting and practice rifle in the off season.

Drawbacks:
*sun at your back/directly to your front. glare/reflection.
*early morning and late evening you can't see the reticle.
Note: You could use a red dot sight, but you'd loose some accuracy at long distance.

For deer hunting I have a Rem700 Classic in 7-08 that is very similar to Mackay Sagebrush's pictured above for all the same reasons he outlined. It's a much better choice than the scout.
SEMPER FIDELIS

If you had trouble making a shot with the sun behind you or over your shoulder, I'd say you had some other problem than scope design. Neither my Burris Scout Scope or any of EER Leupold scopes I've used over the years have presented this problem. You must keep the ocular clean, for instance.
I did note than with the scope over 9 inches away from me, the scope didn't even perform as well as the many 2.5X scopes I've used. The image wasn't as bright nor did it appear as sharp. I understand that is called light pollution. It did appear to simply print the reticle on the target out in space. You could easily look around the scope, etc. But I think it would have been more easily picked up if the reticle would have been a heavier one.
I'm a big fan of light rilfes. Most of mine have 22-24 inch barrels. I have not found shorter barreled rifles to actually have any advantage in the field. Even in heavy cover.
Since I use longer barrels and save weight elsewhere as in the stock and the action, I really don't need to save weight by shortening the barrels of my rifles.
Other than a small tendency to be less prone to snag things while they are carried, I mean, really, is 3-5 inches going to make that much difference, the shorter barreled guns haven't done much for me.
Lots of interesting ideas with the scout rifle design. While I didn't adopt the design itself, I did learn a few things that I found practical and useful. E

Always seemed to me to be sort of an answer to a question that nobody had asked. If it works for someone, more power to them, but I'd call it more of a quirky gimmick than I would a universal system.

Eremicus,
your points are well taken. I have been able to get around those quirks each time I encountered them. I measured the scope distance from my eye and it's 12 inches. When I moved my head forward so that I was at 9 inches the sight picture did improve. The scope is a Burris LER 2.75x and the quality is excellent. I have mounted it on a Ruger 22LR pistol and killed lots of rabbits.
Concerning the 20 inch barrel, I normally carry this rifle slung over my back when crawling around in the under brush and the shorter barrel doesn't snag branches and limbs.
My machinist buddy and I built the rifle and mounted the scope base where at the time it looked "Good"! Field use and your observations have shown that I need to relocate the scope base so that I'm at 9 inches from the scope when aiming. This will be corrected ASAP!

Sometimes a slap to the back of the head jar"s the brain matter back into alignment
Thank's for your input!

Adapt, Improvise, and Overcome!
SEMPER FIDELIS

Humm, dont know about a pipe dream, but I agree with djpaintless about using a low power vari- scope. does about the samething with standard mounts.

Matter of fact I love low power var-scopes, I dont see why the vast majority of hunters use 3.5x10 and up for general hunting.

I love to go into Sportsmans or Cabelas and just watch the salesman-ship. Putting fellows into 3.5x10 or 4x12's because they may have to reach out there! My longest shot was a doe whitetail that I smacked at 444 yards with a straight 6x Zeiss. She was pretty little in the site picture, needed to get closer.

Most folks could get by with less X's and would shoot better or make better jugements on shots.

Most of my rifes have Leupold 1.5x5's or swaro Z6's in 1x6 or 1.7x10. Sorry I got off track!

Ed

Stupid answer. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the occular being clean. And just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it hasn't happened to lots of other people. Maybe your head is swollen with misinformation and shades the lens better .......................................DJ

Well DJ. what E forgets is that sometimes you ain't got time to keep your rifle meticulously clean. Eastern Montana in the summer is a good example, as there's no point taking a lense pen to your ocular lense, as it'll be covered in dust and dirt in short order again in no time.

My giant Irish Melon makes one helluva sunshade for a plain vanilla fixed 4 Loopy. I take reasonable care of my rifles, but in reality, they're a tool, no different than a hammer.

djpaintless support of the low powered scope in a conventional scope mount is a proven system. It's used to hunt dangerous game both in Africa and Alaska. It's a good choice for the majority of hunting situations we encounter. Those scope's have a wide field of view and a heavy reticles. The scout rifle isn't a replacement for that role. It's just one more tool to consider for other pursuits and to fill your toy box.

With the regular scope mount you have to set your scope specific to your eye relief so that when you aim the rifle you get a complete field of view through the lens and not so close that you require stiches. You also need to adjust the focus ring on the ocular bell to ensure the reticle is crisp and clear. Moving the scope mount base on my scout is basically accomplishing the same thing. Before going into the field I clean the lens of my rifle scope and binoculars. So I discounted the comment about a dirty lens.
SEMPER FIDELIS

I didn't, my point was that it happens sometimes, and its out of your control...

Here's what replaced the Scout Rifle in my arsenal



Every bit as handy and lightweight. Except I have a fixed 4 on it, and a Turner M1903 sling instead of a Ching Sling. Nothing is safe inside 400 yards I have no problems shooting a fixed 4 with both eyes open, and target aquisition is very quick at any yardage. No need for stripper clips, if you can't get it done in 5, it didn't need doing... Or you should have brought an HK91 to the fight

Like I said it's just a toy, excuse me a tool.

The stripper clip concept is for my shooting club's monthly open match where you can use any rifle you bring and scopes of low powder are in a class of their own. It's just like the DCM Matches for military semi-auto rifles and open sights.

The shoot consist of 50 rounds fired from the following positions. Off-hand slow fire 10rds, standing to sitting rapid fire 10rds, standing to prone rapid fire 10rds, and prone slow fire 20rds. The stripper clips allow for a fast reload in the rapid fire portions. You'd be surprised how many people can't shoot with a scoped rifle. The targets don't lie. After the shoot and some kidding around, we help the guys having problems so their scores improve at the next match. It's a fun shoot and it's open to anyone willing to try. It definitely improves hunting skills.

Your comment:
"If you can't get it done in 5, it didn't need doing...or you should have brought an HK91 to the fight".

This can be taken as a "smart a$$ dig". I rather take it as a freindly exchange.

I did 3 combat tours in Vietnam, serving in infantry companies, recon units, and reactionary platoons in support of our scout/snipers. I don't claim to be a "Hero" or an expert!
I have allot of buddies on the Vietnam Memorial "Wall" and those who were seriously wounded, so I wouldn't disrespect them. I OWE them my LIFE! They deserve our respect.

If I were to be in a fight, it would go like this:
Artillery, Rocket and Mortar barrage, Close Air Support to include all types of bombs and Napalm, More Arty & Mortars, followed by recon by fire and a ground assault to probe enemy strengths, then More Bombs, Napalm, Arty, Roc's, and Mortars, to include small arms barrage (recon by fire).
Ending with a final napalm carpet bombing.

In a gun fight you don't fight fair, you kill and burn the enemy and destroy any evidence that they existed!

SEMPER FIDELIS
I THINK I'LL TAKE MY MED's NOW, SOMETHING TO DO WITH PTSD !!!

Grunt. Hell, I like you, you should hang out here more often Meds or not, you're a common sense type of guy. You remind me of my bro Ryan (My kids call him Uncle Psycho) Sounds like you guys had a very similar MOS. Just that he came around in another war on foreign soil (Iraq, Part II)

I have nothing but respect for guys like you and Uncle Psycho. It takes a lot of balls to serve your country like that.

I used to shoot a little Highpower when I was younger, and I hope to get back into it this summer. One of our local clubs has what they call a "Hunter Highpower" match. All strings of fire are 5 rounds though and rifles must be considered a "Sporter" by the masses. There's only two classes, Irons, and any scope. We have 100 offhand, 100 offhand rapid fire, 200 sitting/kneeling, and 400 prone (which is untimed and 10 rounds) So no, I'm not suprised at how many guys can't shoot a scoped rifle. In fact it never fails to amaze me. The last match I took my Kimber 308 with its fixed 4 Loopy. Had I not shot two 8's for the first two at 400 (I dialed in a little too much elevation) I'd have finished 1st. A hunting buddy of mine beat me by 3 points (he's a seasoned rifle shooter BTW) He was shooting a 270 with a Kahles 3-9 with the TDS reticle. All the guys shooting the various 30 cal Penis Envy Magnums and astrological grade glass didn't fare too well... Especially offhand.

my dealer has a real styer scout at $1700.00, no scope. After handling this rifle on multiple occasions over the years I just cannot see why they are worth that money. Is the extra clip in the stock worth $700.00? Some have said that they are not even MOA guns.

Dan,
thanks for the kind words, they're greatly appreciated. Todays troops are the best. We also have a Hunter Highpowder, same rules apply.

Jim,
For that price you can go on a nice hunt, buy a new scope or rifle. My Scout shoot's 1/2-3/4 inch groups from the bench. Using a sling, daypack, or improvised rest,sitting or prone, out to 300yds it's within MOA. I built it for $800.00 complete.

SEMPER FIDELIS

Back before the scout rifle thingy re Col Cooper became famous, B square made a mount for the m38 swedish mauser that was mounted in the rear sight mounting hornes. It took aa long eye relief scope. I used a 2.5 to 7 TC pistol scope and it was handy like crazy. I used it to hunt wounded bear in the thick brush on 2.5 power and it was a point and kill weapon.

I repsect Col Cooper, and most every person who puts themselves in harms way for those citizens who can, or will not.

Randy