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Joined: Jun 2008
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jun 2008
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I owned a Rem 870 20GA that I bought for my son when he was younger to turkey hunt with. I tested it with various choke tubes and loads. It shot pretty good, but I doubt that it would kill a turkey much farther than 40yds. It might go a tad farther if you got lucky. I wouldn't even think of comparing it side by side with my 835. There is no comparison which one will kill turkeys farther or better. Dead is dead I suppose, but I won't recommend a 20GA to anyone who wants what I call a true turkey gun that can extend your lethal range by at least 10 to 15yds from my experience and not going off of hearsay what you read or hear from a friend or another guy on the net. Seeing is believing in my book. 20 gages are ok for some, but not for me.
Judging by some of the targets on this thread I think some of the guys on here need to hang some targets at a legitimate 50yds where I can shoot right next to them with my 835, and we can truly see just how many shot they can put in a turkey head with their supposedly great shooting guns. I bet in the real world they would not like the outcome.
Last edited by BradC; 02/16/09.
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Heres a crappy pic of a 40 yard pattern w/ nickel plated 4's, 870 supermag and .660 choke. I'm happy with that. ![[Linked Image]](http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/wisturkeyhunter/IMG_0671.jpg)
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2004
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You're hung up on the 835. The make, model, and gauge really have nothing to do with it. I used an 835 util mag, or whatever the hell it was last year. Honestly, that gun doesn't even begin to tickle my funny bone. It had a lot of plastic, it was noisy as hell, then camo dip wore off in less than 40 shots, and I couldn't get it to patteren with anything at all. But again, it was all I had at the time.
You say seeing is believing, well I'm a believer in the 20ga. Don't really care what you think or have read. I have shot it, and seen what it does. How about a dead turkey at 33yds, not steped, measured yds for you, with an improved cylinder and #6 dove loads. Yep, did it, don't care if you believe it. My wife and father in law were whitnesses. We all ate the bird about 45 minutes after it died. It has little to do with what ga, or brand of gun you use. It is how you use it.
I'm guessing you wouldn't be willing to lean that 835 on a post at 50yds and let me shoot at would you?
I'm done arguing this point. In May, I'm going to shoot a turkey with my silly old 870 20ga, and put it up on here.
T
Camp is where you make it.
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Mossbergs aren't even in the same class as 870's. Any shotgun on the market will pattern more than exceptable patterns within normal ranges. I'd rather not have a rattle trap 835
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 57
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Posts: 57 |
I'm not hung up on the 835, I'm hung up on the way it shoots 2 and 1/4oz of Win #4 turkey loads at 40yds and farther. I agree the 835's aren't in the same class as the 870's for overall quality. But I bought the Mossberg because it will out shoot the 870's with heavy 4 shot loads. I know that to be a fact. I've tested all 3 of the 870's I have owned and seen a many of other 870's shoot. They work fine eith 6's and 5's. But they won't shoot 2oz or 2 and 1/4oz #4 loads well from what I have seen trying various chokes and loads. I haven't seen a 870 yet that shot heavy 4 loads well. I guess there may be some, but every 870 and 11/87 barrel will have about the same exact dimenstions.
You stick with what you like. I'll stick with the 835 that kills turkeys farther.
I have buddies who have 835's as well. They shoot about the exact same as mine.
Last edited by BradC; 02/16/09.
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I shoot 2 3/8 ounce 4's and 5's outta my 870 with great results willing to bet as good or better than the average 835.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 57
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 57 |
I have tried the Fiocchi shells in several of my different turkey guns and I honestly wasn't impressed except in the 20GA gun. And it shot the Remington shells better. To my knowledge, Remington uses the same backbore on all their 3" and 3.5" 12GA shotguns and they have yet to change anything. And out of all the 12 GA shotguns I have owned and tested, not a one would shoot heavy #4 loads with a a choke tighter than .680. But that has been my findings. Your results may vary.
Last edited by BradC; 02/17/09.
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2004
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Funny you should mentioin Fiocchi. I tried them in my 835 last year. The shot OK but I wouldn't eject them once they were fired. I had to take the gun apart every time I shot one. 3" in a 3 1/2" chamber, so that wasn't the problem. They wouldn't even come out of the chamber. That was to bad too, because they patterend OK and they're cheap.
Camp is where you make it.
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Campfire Regular
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I'd be more apt to place blame on the gun not the shell. The 3.5 inchers work fine in my 870 and I've shot several boxes of there 2 3/4 golden pheasants without a hiccup. Mossbergs are known for being picky.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 57 |
Seeing is believing I guess.
My 835 isn't picky.
But I won't say it will shoot like your world record gun.
But it will shoot consistent 90% patterns at 40yds with 4's 5's or 6's. That's been my finding to be superb to most guns out there that I have either shot or seen shoot in person and not going by a picture on the internet but in the real world.
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Campfire Regular
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I never claimed my gun to be a world record gun. I go for a totally different pattern than the guys do at the shoots do. They have very dense center of there patterns that have holes in the pattern around the 3 inch a quick look at a good still target pattern would show this. I go for really dense yet even patterns. Brad I'm sure me and you would agree more than we'd disagree about shotgun patterns. We both like even patterns of bigger shot and don't think you need hevi shot to kill turkeys.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Your probably right about that. I guess I'm going to have to try some of the 2 and 3/8oz Fiocchi #4 loads. I have tried the 1 and 3/8oz loads and they weren't very good. But that was years ago. I know I shot some of the Kent 2 and 3/8oz I believe loads, and they didn't shoot too well.
How big is that cardboard you posted with the #4 load?
Last edited by BradC; 02/18/09.
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Honestly I don't know. My Dads an auto mechanic and them cardboard come from the inside of car wheels when they are shipped he got a pile of em. I don't think they are much over 20 inches. They are all at our cabin so I have no way to measure it.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 46,745
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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No need for hevi-shot, but it does pattern nicely. It just cost too much for what you get out of it. I have had great success the last few years with the Federals regular turkey load, with the Flite Control wad. In several sizes too. But I have had the best luck with Remington Express Long Range, in 12 and 20ga. Beleive it or not, in the 12, the 2 3/4" #4 are fantastic out of my 870. I had a Benelli M-1 that would only shoot Winchester Supremes, the expensive ones. I don't get too caught up on what % of shot is in the target. If it is evenly distributed on the target, and has a good # of shot in the turkey head and neck, I use it. 30yds and in, there isn't much that doesn't pattern well enough to kill a turkey. Even a Mossberg 835 would do at that range.  T
Camp is where you make it.
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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MKW,
I got a couple of questions for you.
What size load are you shooting in your 20GA? And second, how many #7 shot total are in one of them loads? I can shoot a 12GA 2oz #6 load that has I believe approx 450 shot in each shell and only consistently put 300 shot in a 8.5"x11" piece of copy paper with a turkey head on it at only 25yds. And that is with some great shooting 12GA shotguns. I personally find it hard to believe that you can truly put 256 shot in a 10" circle consistently at a legitimate 40yd distance. I have some great shooting 12 GA guns, and none of them even with 2oz of heavy shot will do this with a bigger back bore barrel than a 20GA which by the way will only allow the shot more breathing room thus producing tighter patterns at farther distances. I for one don't use 6 shot. I use 2 and 1/4 oz Win Supreme #4 loads with Undertaker .695 choke on a Mossberg 835. I get consistent 90% patterns at 40yd. I have killed gobblers at 53 and 59yds with this set up. 4 shot just kills turkeys farther when you get out to 50yds and more from my findings. 6 shot is like pepper spray at that distance on a turkey. A gobbler at 50yds with this setup doesn't have a prayer. I guess I have tested a lot of shotguns on cardboard to know that something ain't right in Denmark. I'm sorry that I didn't see this post sooner, but this is not one of the sights that I get to often. Now, let me start by saying that I don't care one bit what you believe or don't believe. I shoot Nitro #7s(1&7/16oz) thru(mostly)PureGold .555 chokes. I have shot just about every choke/load combo available for a 20ga. I shot Hevi13 #6s until they messed up that load in 07. I could get in the 150s with the 06 and prior load. When they changed it, I lost approximately 30% of my pattern density, so I went to Nitros. My range is set up at exactly 40 measured yards. I have been at this patterning thing a long time and used to shoot about 80 turkey loads every spring at paper. I have probably shot as many 20ga turkey loads as any one person out there. At one time, I had 7 different 20ga turkey guns that would do 200+ in a 10" circle at 40yrds. All with Nitro 7s. As I said, I don't care what you believe cause I can assure you that those 22 longbeards that have fallen to my 20ga guns in the last 4 seasons believe that my 20ga is enough gun for turkeys. Take care, Mike
Last edited by MKW; 02/24/09.
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BradC,
I just read thru all of your posts on this thread. Do you really believe that lead #4s will penetrate better at 50 yrds than #5 or #6 Hevishot?? If you do, you are living in the dark ages of turkey loads and really need to do some research. I can understand that you might be completely satisfied with how the lead #4s perform for you, but to say that they kill better than #5 or #6 Hevi is just simply NOT true, at all.
Mike
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 46,745
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Camp is where you make it.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 57
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Mike,
What I believe is that I can kill a turkey probably consistently as far shooting 2 and 1/4oz Win Supreme #4 loads and a .695 Undertaker choke from my 835 as you probably can kill with Hevi-Shot #5 or #6 loads. The thing is all the #4 are exactly that #4 size shot. With Hevi-Shot 5's or 6's, your getting a lot of smaller size shot mixed in. So they aren't all 5's or 6's. Another reason why the Hevi-Shot patterns as well as it does. I seriously doubt a true #6 Hevi-Shot will give you the same foot/lbs of energy as a #4 copper plated shot. They may be harder, but they only weigh approx 10% more than lead. So you explain to me how it will have more energy. And most of the Hevi-Shot loads are rated at slower speeds as well.
Last edited by BradC; 02/25/09.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 57
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 57 |
My 835 shoots about 6 to 8" low. So does my buddy's 835. That's the way I like it. Think of it like this, and it does work for killing a tukey if you think about it using heavy #4 loads. When you shoot a turkey and aim for the head at say 40yds with a gun that shoots a perfectly centered pattern, half of your shot is being wasted shooting over the bird. I can aim at the head and the majority of my shot is slamming into not only the neck area but the bird itself. Like I said, I break wing bone, leg bone, and do major damage to the birds body as well as putting shot up and down the neck of the bird. The bird I dropped at 59yds dropped in its tracks as well as the bird at 53yds. A bird at 55yds I'm almost certain will consistently go down from what I have seen by the results in the turkey woods using these heavy #4 loads and the setup I have. I wouldn't be afraid to shoot a bird that hung up at 60yds. I would say I would have pretty good odds of killing the bird.
This gun is a turkey buster and I don't have to have Hevi-Shot loads to reach out there at the farther ranges.
Last edited by BradC; 02/25/09.
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Campfire Member
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If you are happy, I'm happy for you. If you ever shoot much Hevishot, you will quickly figure out that it is FAR superior to ANY lead shell. There are a bunch of penetration tests that have been performed that prove this conclusively. I hate to even tell you this, but I killed a turkey in 07 at 52yrds (ranged after the shot) and he went down as hard as any I have ever shot. This was with a 20ga Encore and #7 hevi Nitros. Those little "pixie dust" #7s are bad news for turkeys. My Nitro #7s are traveling at 1200fps, so they have all the power of most 12ga loads. A lot of guys have trouble with 20ga turkey guns AND #7 shot, but all reservations go away once you actually use this stuff.
Good luck this spring,
Mike
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