Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles working up to maximum loads with limited information to go on.....7x64

i picked up a mauser model 66 while serving in the army in germany.
i found it liked the lighter 8.0 gram i think 120 grain kegelspitz (sp?) bullets, more than the heavier tig or tug bullets.
torpedo idel geshosse and i can't remember what tug means, anyways, one is soft in the front and the other kinda like a partions .. been a long time since i have looked over this ..
also a 7x65r is loaded to lower pressured as it was meant for break open rifles.

my mauser i found liked 55.5 grains of imr4350 under a 139 grain btsp.

i shot a lot of roe deer with that rifle and it sits a quiet, possibly retired, life in the back of the safe now.
i used it some years back (1991) when i went on a black bear hunt in maine. i took a bear using norma ammo. didn't have the reloading equiptment set up back then, so i used factory.
i also took a nice whitetail buck with it in montana.

it's hard to let an old friend sit. i called it my "stoner" as it always killed whatever i pointed it at, stone dead.

i also have some speer and federal factory loaded ammo for it, the speer is using a 160 grain, grand slams, and federal ammo is using 160 grain nosler partitions.
it doesn't shoot either ammo too well, but i have some for it , just in case....

now that this is brought up, anyone have a set of dies for a 7x64 they aren't using ?
i would like to load some ammo up and take him out to play again, with food he likes.

wow, memories are flooding back...

Here's another 66S in 7x64 :

It likes the RWS TIG's and also handloads with Sierra 160 GK and VV N 160. BTW, TUG = Universal Torpedo Geschosse, a hard dual-core bullet meant fore deep penetration.

The comments regarding 7x65R pressures are correct. The Hornady #4 manual states that the listed loads are intended for something like a Mauser 98 and suggests lowering the listed charges by 10-15% for combination guns.

Cast&Blast

In the Hornady manual they said that the data was worked up in a bolt action and that for combination guns that loads should be reduced 15%.

Max loads with the 154 grain spire point was imr 4350 @ 52.9 grains and 2900 fps

Max load for imr 4831 is 55.6 grains and 2900 fps'

Start loads for both are 5 grains less.

very nice 66 !
i like the inlay. mine is the plain version, and my safety is just a button you move from side to side. the mounts are different as well, you have the swing mount, can't remember how to spell it in german, and i have the einhaukmontage (sp? again), claw mount.

very nice rifles i must say, and the idf uses a variant as their sniper rifle.

RNF,
Thanks for the Hornady info.

So,.... if I get 2850 in my rifle with 57 grains of 4831/160 gr. bullet, with no obvious signs of excess pressure, and cases last at least 4x without the primer pocket stretching, should I consider this a maximum, but permissible load? or Should I pull bullets and back off a grain or three??

From what I understand from reading one of JB's articles on using a chronograph to develop maximum loads, I should be OK by checking velocity against factory loads/tested handloads and cross referencing with pressure signs in the case & primer. Does that make sense in this instance for my rifle and this combination of components? Or is IMR 4831 /160 gr bullet / 2850 FPS just not attainable safely in my rifle?

bwinters,
Thanks for that analysis. I think I may back off one grain, an re-test velocity in warm weather. If I can maintain an average velocity very close to 2800 fps in both warm & cold conditions I'm goin' elk hunting with this rig.

This rifle has the latest "S" safety which succeeded to the crossbolt type. Swingout mount is an EAW (Ernst Appel Werke) "schwenkmontage" under a vintage Swarovski Habicht Nova 1,5-6x42.

Here's a view of the other sides of the rifle :

cast - I'd use 280 data - and exceed as you feel comfortable. Almost all data I see for the 280 is held to 58-59,000 psi. I'd take it closer to 63-65K psi if it we're me - just be reasonable.

I use a rule of thumb when I get near the top end. For 180 grain bullets, 1 grain is ~ 40 ft/sec, 2500 psi. So start with 58,000 psi, add 2 grains, you get 5000 psi and 80 ft/sec, end up at 63,000 psi and add 80 ft/sec. I'd be curious if Quickload confirms this average.

At the end of the day, I'll bet 2800 will work

I also try to use the slowest powder that will give me SAAMI pressure. I shoot alot of compressed loads but always get near top velocity, SAAMI pressure, good ES, and good groups. Been working for me for a long time. The only downside is that when you add more powder, you get more recoil because you add mass to the equation in the form of more powder. With the 280, it shouldn't be a big deal.

andre,
iirc, there were inlayed parts available seperately at one time.
are there any of those still around. i'd like to change out my plain parts for one like those ?

i'll take pics later, gonna go to the range today and try some loads out for a 338-06, so "stoner" is going along to get some sunshine and fresh air.

also, i've been looking in my gun room , there is an article from a gun rag years ago i kept, called "the johnny come lately, the 7mm express",or something like that. iirc there were some loads for the 7x64 in that article as it was comparing the 280/7mm express to the old 1917 designed 7x64 cartridge.
i'm looking for it, as i know i had it in a binder. gotta be in a box in the closet with pics and such i have stored.

I can't tell as I never heard of engraved spare parts. On my rifle, it's true engraving + reblue and gold inlays. However, I don't know if it was done at the factory or afterwards.

i have seen factory engraved/inletted ones. there is also a "diplomat" model, i think it's called, with engraving all over it, and gold inlays.
anyways, here's mine while at the range today.




not the greatest pics as the sun was right there, washing out the photo shoot.

Some more factory ammunition, actual FPS from 23-inch barrel Steyr M.

RWS 154-gr at 2,900 fps

Norma 150-gr at 2,960 fps

Remington 175-gr at 2,650 fps

PMP 140-gr at 3,000 fps
PMP 175-gr at 2,660 fps

My 7x64 BRNO has a 21-inch barrel, so I used this Steyr to give more realistic readings.