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Remember the pilot that lost both engines flying over the Atlantic because he ran out of fuel? He glided in from something like 50 or more miles to land at a military airport in the Azores?
Only one chance to hit the runway dead on and no reverse thrusters to slow the plane down. That was one hero too!
Feel the Bern in your wallet.
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It was an Air Transat Airbus A 330.... But he ran out of fuel because he screwed up and transfered fuel out of a perfectly good fuel tank to a an engine that had just shut down due to a fuel leak. I can't remember the exact story but they teach it in Crew Resource Management classes all the time on how not to do it. The guy screwed up and ended up with a great landing. However, if he wouldn't have transfered fuel he would have been fine. That guy screwed up and caused his 2 engine failure..
Last edited by jetjockey; 01/18/09.
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DJS... Youd be suprises how far a jet can glide without any power. If you lose both engines on a 2 engine jet at 36,000 ft you can glide a long ways. Probably 80-100 miles.
Yep. Some of you may recall the " Gimli Glider" -- a jet that ran out of fuel between Montreal and Winnipeg and glided 50 or 80 miles on an old WW2 airbase at Gimli, Manitoa (which was, at that time, a dragstrip). By co-incidence, this pilot's hobby was flying gliders... ![[Linked Image]](http://www.wadenelson.com/gimlix.jpg) More about the Gimli Glider One runway had been converted to a dragstrip and the plane landed on it. Although I had been there for the drag races atother times I was not there that day, but I knew somebody who was there that day. Yes -- a whoppin' great airliner landed on the dragstip on race day, scattering folks and barbecues!  The nose gear collapsed because it was not locked (no hydraulics), but there were only minor injuries. Later, they fixed the nose gear, and flew the plane back out. Wish I had gone that day! Would have been something to see for sure! John
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... I give the crew tons of credit, but, if you want to here a heroic pilot story read about Al Haynes. He was the pilot of the United DC10 that crashed in Iowa. Now he is a heroic SOB.. He had very little control over his DC10 when the #2 engine blew and caused a loss of all hydraulic systems. That ain't supposed to happen. He was as cool as ice the entire time, that guy, now he is one heroic SOB.... Video of Sioux City crash http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoCYkU6_vOM&feature=relatedI saw a TV movie based on this instance years ago. Seems like Efrem Zimbalist Jr. played the pilot and Ron Howard played ... the safety director at the Sioux City airport? I didn't remember the pilot's name, but he gave credit to the young man in the control tower for being so calm and "matter-of-fact" during the emergency. Here's a link to the exchange followed by an interview with Al Haynes (text only) http://www.clear-prop.org/aviation/haynes.html Whoever Ron Howard played had implemented and/or rehersed a disaster preparedness plan just days or weeks before the crash happened, so the airport personnel were ready for it. Certainly no one had any idea Al Haynes' problems were physically possible. His set of circumstances couldn't have been programmed into any simulator or rehersed in any pilot's mind - (Think I'm right about this.)But I totally agree with this: A jet crash lands into a river and 150+ passengers live. The guy is a hero no matter how you look at it, ... If for no other reason because not a single life was lost under such dire conditions, and people did die at Sioux City. ...Typo------Since you cannot carry a pen knife anymore, the sinking plane would pull the rafts down. A boatman threw a knife down to the raft. 
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Unless you've got thousands of hours in the Cockpit, like the vast majority of the public, you're really not in a position to judge what's what in a situation like what happened at Sioux Falls or on the Hudson... I'll take my dad's opinion over Katie Couric's any day... over 24,000 flying hours and retiring in the left seat of a 747 didn't just happen...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Brad, do you think I got my opinion from Katie Couric? I didn't read through the whole Al Haynes interview, but here's a little piece of it: ...the question. We kept saying we think we had the elevators under control. We never had the elevators under control. We thought we did, but we didn't. ... So you see, with those two things to work with--one engine, and the other--just getting the airplane on the ground was a tremendous piece of luck. Amazing. ... and it happened to work, so we got the airplane, at least, to an airport.... Why don't you read through the whole thing a pick something that illustrates Chesley Sullenberger couldn't have done the same thing Al Haynes did under the same circumstances? Katie Couric indeed. ...The [NY] plane splashed into the frigid water about three minutes after hitting the birds. ...IMO, a hero is a guy who does something he's not trained to do, isn't expected to do, and doesn't have to do, at the risk of his life when doing nothing at all would have meant no risk to him at all, even to his reputation. ... I wish you'd explain this in relation to Chesley Sullenberger or Al Hayes. Or if I'm misunderstanding you, who is a hero in your eyes?
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More from this article at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7832642.stm ...Barely a minute after the bird strikes, the captain of the Flight 1549 began talking to controllers about probably having to ditch in the river, according to a timeline released by investigators. The copilot kept trying unsuccessfully to restart the engines, while simultaneously running through an emergency-landing checklist, according to an Associated Press report. But because the plane had just taken off, and had only reached an altitude of around 3,000 feet, it had little time to go through the checklist. The plane splashed into the frigid water about three minutes after hitting the birds. Three minutes you little...pip-squeak. And now we know exactly who was flying the plane too.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Not sure what of this you can't understand... the two incidents are entirely different... one was a relatively simple matter of putting a bird down in the Hudson (the safest and ONLY place to land) after a matter of a few minutes transpired from the loss of engines, which any number of thousands of well-trained commercial pilots could have/would have done vs. one that was a nearly superhuman feat of complicated aviation with a severly disabled aircraft that transpired over a significant portion of time that likely few aviators could have pulled off. But I'll leave you to your media-induced fantasy... it's so much more interesting than reality... My old man, a 33 year airline veteran, thinks the job Al Haynes did was probably the greatest feat of airman-ship quite possibly in the history of aviation.
He also happens to live in NYC right where the US Airways touched down and essentially credits the pilots with good, basic airman-ship. Nothing more, nothing less. Landing in the Hudson was the only option.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire 'Bwana
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PS, that's not to take anything away from the Captain of US Air... just that, as my dad opined, "that poor guy must be utterly embarrassed by the ignorant media coverage"... he did his job and did it well.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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But I'll leave you to your media-induced fantasy... it's so much more interesting than reality...
You've got your nose 3' up you Dad's butt, don't you Brad? You know what? You're not worth any more of my time. I'll leave you to you Dad-induced fantasy... it's so much more interesting than reality.
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P.S. this isn't to take anything away from Al Haynes either.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm guessing fifteen, maybe eighteen years old max...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Brad... Thats the general consesus with all the pilots I know. What they USair crew did was nothing that any normal airline crew wouldn't do. +1000. In my USAF flying career, I shut down engines 17 times, was hit by lightning twice, had dual runaway trim (the MOST scary incident--it was hard to control the jet until we figured out what was going on), pressurization problems, low pich stops hanging up on landing, compressor stalls, etc--not to mention how many times student pilots tried to kill me in the T-38. I, like every other professional pilot, was trained to and was expected to handle these situations. And no, I didn't have ice in my veins. In fact, I'd bet the pilot of the US Airways jet was scared. It's just that we work very hard at doing the right things while we are scared. In USAF pilot training, we purposely kept kids in high stress situations. Everything they did was graded and the consequences for failure--even on ground training, was severe. We piled on as much stress as we could during even ground EP training. We'd make them stand up, and if they made one error they were 'dinged' for it, often to the point of being grounded for the day and a big red mark put by their name on the scheduling board for all to see. We didn't do this to be @ssholes, we did it so they got used to being scared and performing well anyway.
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I dont care who has the bigger pecker here. no one can deny that the flight crew did a good job bringing that plane in straight. they also kept the passengers calm. The ferry captians and crew also did there part by getting everybody safe. Cant ask for a better outcome.
You can argue all day long if they are heros or just doing there job. there comes a point where one is the same as the other. All 155 people survived.
As for Haynes, what he did was truly amzing. he saved alot of people that day. I'm glad he was able to survive it.
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It's not about a "bigger pecker", it's about putting the preposterous media coverage into a little perspective... no one is taking anything away from the USAir crew...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Whoever believes the MSM 100% needs to have there head examined.
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AMX... Not to argue with you, because the USair crew did one hell of a job, but, what Al Haynes did was on a completly diferent lever. Hell, it was about 4 levels up from what the USair crew did. And Im not trying to take anything away from the USair crew. BUT, there is a checklist for dual engine failure and ditching, there aint' no checklist for a complete hydraulic failure on an airplane that is hydraulicly driven. Al Haynes and his crew made chit up as they went. Flying an airplane with no power is easy, we do it all the time in decent. Flying an airplane with no control authority using only engine thrust is simply out of this world. YOU CAN"T TRAIN FOR THAT. The fact that they made a runway is simply amazine. In all due respect, you simply can not compare the two. I'm not saying the Usair crew couldn't do it, just that they didn't have to......
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More of Al Haynes interview ...Another piece of luck was where we were....The weather was an amazing piece of luck....The time of day was also very advantageous....Our luck ran out about fifty feet in the air, but it lasted for a long time... So luck played a very important part in getting the airplane to Sioux City, and having the survival rate that we did have.... So why would I know more about getting that airplane on the ground under those conditions than the other three. SO if I hadn't used CLR, [Command Leadership Resource Training] if we had not let everybody put their input in, it's a cinch we wouldn't have made it. It was, I don't know if any of you remember the old movie Marty, I kind of refer to that, it was Ernest Borgnine, and a group of his cronies, trying to find something to do on a Saturday night, and they said, what do you
want to do Marty, and he said, i don't know, what do you want to do Joe, and that's kind of the way we flew the airplane now. What do you want to do, I don't know, and let's try this, and you think that'll work, beats me, and that's about the way it went, really. If you read the cockpit voice recorder transcript, there's a lot of that on there.... ...The second big factor was ommunications. ...extremely calm young man that you just heard, Kevin Bockman. He's a controller that happened to be on the radar station at approach control when we turned it over....But the calmness of his voice, the communications with him was outstanding. ... the cockpit voice recorder shows numerous times we were asking where we were in relation to the airport and how far out and he was right there every second giving us every bit of information,...
Communications in the air was tremendous.
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... BUT, there is a checklist for dual engine failure and ditching, .... More from this article at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7832642.stm ...But because the plane had just taken off, and had only reached an altitude of around 3,000 feet, it had little time to go through the checklist. The plane splashed into the frigid water about three minutes after hitting the birds. ... And now we know exactly who was flying the plane too. I really don't care what you or pip-squeak thinks. What I do resent is the "Katie Couric" and "media-induced fantasy" remarks. Hell, if you read the interview, even the great Al Haynes says, "What [the captain] said, goes. And we lost a few airplanes because of that. Sometimes the captain isn't as smart as we thought he was. And we would listen to him, and do what he said, and we wouldn't know what he's talking about...." Does anybody here claim to be a captain? And you know, now that we've brought it this far, Al Haynes didn't do anything or make any decisions by himself. But Chesley Sullenberger did.
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