24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,088
N
Campfire Outfitter
OP Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
N
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,088
After reading Spomer's latest in Rifle magazine, he has my interest piqued.

I've long thought about a 6.5-06, but I want to reach 3,000 fps in a 23" bbl, so the 6.5 sounds just about perfect. Plus, I dont have a wildcat in the stable, and the 6.5 just sounds cool.

I'm thinking a M-70 classic stainless (or Kimber Montana?) action, 23" Krieger, Hill Country McMillan Bridges stock.

I understand we're basically talking about the 6.5-06 Improved, but I like the idea of just necking down Nosler brass.

Anyone have any experience with this cartridge?


“Factio democratica delenda est"
GB1

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,400
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,400
I posted a similar question last week about the 6.5-280Ackley and got little response. You might check that post for what little response I did get.

We are thinking along the same lines. Simply necking down nosler brass sounds like a easy way to go. Im still on the fence.


Rick
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,935
H
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,935
nyrifleman,

My 6.5-'06 has a 23.6" barrel and gets over 3,000 fps burning around 50+ gr of powder. I think the Ackley would have you burning something over 60 gr and thus more velocity.

jim


LCDR Jim Dodd, USN (Ret.)
"If you're too busy to hunt, you're too busy."
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,878
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,878
Dogzapper wrote an article and built a 6.5-280ai. PM him and maybe he can tell you what varmint hunter mag issue it was. Try seaching under dogzapper name.

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,088
N
Campfire Outfitter
OP Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
N
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,088
Thanks rc and Jim

Partagas, sent him a PM, thanks for the lead


“Factio democratica delenda est"
IC B2

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,400
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,400
if you get a link with some more info from DZ please let me know.


Rick
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Kahuna Emeritus &
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Kahuna Emeritus &
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,423


I'm getting home late from doings at church; worked my buns off and I'm bushed. It's late and I'm within minutes of putting my old body in the sack.

In short, I thought that it was fascinating that Ron Spomer had Holland build a rifle in 6.5-280 Ackley Improved and neither one of them thought to mention me. Guess I've been out of the loop too long ... or maybe it just slipped their minds gringringrin

Yeah, I worked quite a bit with the cartridge and it's a fabulous round.

I'm tired and gonna put it to bed. I'll write a bit on it tomorrow.

Steve




"God Loves Each Of Us As If There Were Only One Of Us"
Saint Augustine of Hippo - AD 397







Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,105
C
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
C
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,105
Why not a 6.5STW.

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,088
N
Campfire Outfitter
OP Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
N
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,088
1. I already have a custom .264 Win mag inbound.
2. Want a 23" bbl
3. Barrel life

Dogzapper, looking forward to your input, thanks!


“Factio democratica delenda est"
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Kahuna Emeritus &
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Kahuna Emeritus &
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,423
OK, I got a great nights sleep and will write a bit of what I know about the 6.5-.280 Ackley Improved.

Please, no flames; I've been in lurk-mode on the Campfire for several weeks. It seemed that everything I said was wrong, so I simply have been spending more time helping people at our Catholic parish. That's what I do best, anyway.

I digress; let's talk about the 6.5-.280 Ackley.

Gosh, I don't even know the year.

I was retired from our jewelry store, so it was after 1992. Chub Eastman was still the Sales Manager at Nosler. I still was writing at Varmint Hunter, a Contributing Editorship I literally walked away from in 2004. It was way before 2004 though, because it was back when Darrell Holland and I had a friendly working relationship (don't ask, please). And it was still back in the days when Chub and I went to slay whitetail, mulies and mooses in Alberta.

Just for the heck of it, let's call it the 1993 or 1994.

Chub Eastman, my longtime good friend and hunting partner, gave me a call one day. Chub wanted me to suggest/design a cartridge that would work through a pre-'64 Winchester action that he had. Generally, his request was for a .264" round that would give the maximum performance out of the basic .30-'06 case. Chub is not allergic to fireforming, so Ackley influence was fine.

So, how do you get the mostest bang for the buck out of the basic '06 case???? The largest case volume of the family is the .280 Remington, owing to the shoulder being .051" forward of the standard round.

The obvious answer to Chub's request was simply to make a .264" round on the .280 Ackley case. Yes, we could have gone for a 6.5 Gibbs, but creating a surragate shoulder or bullet jamming or other heroics were not something I wanted to do.

At the time, Darrell Holland was my go-to gunsmith, so I had Darrell order a 6.5-.280 Ackley reamer from Hugh Hendriksen (the absolute best!!!) and I paid for half of the reamer. I would assume that Chub paid for the other half.

The reamer was marked .264 THE Express. The "THE" nomenclature reportedly stands for Timm, Holland and Eastman. I always thought that the THE name sucked.

Chub and I both had rifles built in 6.5 -.280 Ackley. Chub's was on his Model 70 action and I believe that he used a Pac-Nor barrel. Knowing Chub, he probably went for a longish barrel and I believe that his stock was one of those yukky MPI abortions.

Mine was on a Remington 700 BDL, with a three-contour twenty-four inch Schneider 1-10" stainless barrel, with a pillar-bedded McMillan Remington Classic stock. My rifle was impeccably done, by any standards.

I guess Chub didn't fancy the THE name any more than I did because his barrel is marked 6.5 Blowhole Express.

My barrel had more character by half because my chamber designation is .264 Brainfart Express. If nothing, Chub and I are comics to the core. The Two Stooges, actually. grin

I developed the data; the rifles shot wonderfully and they shot fast.

Please, no flaming, Chub and I kill stuff; we have proven it in the field and we use what works.

There were two standout loads. The first featured a 120 Ballistic Tip with RL-22 and the muzzle velocity was 3,250 fps. The second was with the 125-grain Partition, again with RL-22, and the MV was 3,200 fps.

Over the years, I watched Chub murder fully a half-dozen Alberta bull moose with the 120 Ballistic Tip in the 6.5 Blowhole. Each moose needed a single shot and they died most rickey-tick. Dead right friggin' there, in fact.

How many huge Alberta whitetail did he kill? Crap, I don't know ... maybe a dozen. They simply died most sincerely dead with the 120 Ballistic. And with no or very little blood-shooting of meat.

I don't believe that either of us have ever recovered a 120 Ballistic; they basically go clear through both mooses and deer, leaving an exit of one- to two-inches. They destroy things that sustain life in the critter, they exit and then they go into a low orbit of the earth.

Very late in the game, Nosler's ballistics buy, Matt Smith, had Holland build him a rifle. Matt was the replacement for Gail Root, Nosler's legendary bullet designer and ballistics dude. Matt was a great guy and he had access to Oregon's GI Ranch, so he was able to kill lots of animals with his rifle.

For those who know Oregon, the GI Ranch is beyond Hampton, kinda in the Glass Buttes, Riley area. It's a huge ranch and permission is like impossible.

Matt fancied the 100 Ballistic tip and he killed mule deer and bull elk that all of the rest of us only dream about with the combination. I've seen photos of Matt with 200+++ point mulies and bull elk that give me the dry humps without the aid of Viagra.

How fast was Matt pushing the 100??? Well, he's young and he's ballistically smart, so probably very, very fast. And, more to the point, the bullet worked for him in a most magnificent way.

The rest of the story: Chub is still murdering animals with his rifle, I guess. I've lost touch with Matt, but it would be hard for me to believe that he would abandon a "good luck rifle" like that. Me? Well, I drifed back to the .280 Ackley, the .25-'06 and a brief flirtation with the 6.5-'06 Ackley.

Currently, I'm kind of quarter-bore guy; in love with the .25-'06 and my new, lovely and totally-unfired .257 Weatherby.

Truth to tell, my shoulder did not really survive surgery well three years ago and I've only fired a few rounds since that time. It is painful in the extreme to shoot a single round and I'm completely incapable of getting big critters out of the field, in the truck and butchered, so I've kinda left the field.

And that's fine. Lord knows, I've killed enough.

So, Campfire friends, that's the story of the 6.5-.280 Ackley. It is a superb round.

Frankly, my work with my Gordy Gritters 6.5-'06 Ackley proved it to be fully equal to the 6.5-280 Ackley. If I were to chose between the rounds, I would go for the 6.5-'06 Ackley because dies are easier to obtain and the choice of brass (.25-06) is far superior.

If you want to read my two-part article on my Gordy Gun, my 6.5-'06 Ackley, pick up Varmint Hunter issues #48 and #49 (October 2003 and January 2004). VH issues are usually available at gun shows for about $1.00 each or some are available through the Varmint Hunters Association. Warning: I tend to write long, so something like 12,000 of Steve's words are needed to describe the rifle, the gunsmithing, the loading procedures and final load development.

I hope that this answers all of the questions that come to mind. As for me, I'm back to lurkdom.

Steve






"God Loves Each Of Us As If There Were Only One Of Us"
Saint Augustine of Hippo - AD 397







IC B3

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,088
N
Campfire Outfitter
OP Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
N
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,088
Thanks Steve!

I'm undecided between a Lilja or Krieger barrel. The bbl will be Stainless Steel.

Krieger only offers their 6.5 bbl in stainless in a #4. Lilja will accomodate any contour.

I'm trying to hold the weight around 7.5-8 lbs, scoped. Stock will be a Hill Country Bridges McMillan, Edge Fill.

Would I be better served with the #4 Krieger, which I would have fluted to remove weight, or a lighter contour (say #3) Lilja, unfluted?

Understanding that all rifles are individuals, I assume with the velocities you achieved, a 140gr bullet at 3000 fps is doable in the AI?

Last edited by nyrifleman; 02/01/09. Reason: spelling

“Factio democratica delenda est"
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Kahuna Emeritus &
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Kahuna Emeritus &
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,423
I never shot the 140s, but I believe that 3,000 fps would be a practical expectation. Eland don't live in Montana, here in Oregon, or in Alberta, so I've never had an interest in the heavies.

Krieger has some strange ideas about steel. Actually, stainless steel can burst if turned too thin and fired at waaaay sub-zero temps. Because of this, Kriegers are heavy buggers. Krieger will cut a 4/3 contour; four-contour at the shank and three-contour forward. That still may not meet your weight. Having said that, Krieger is a fabulous barrel.

You might consider Schneider. Gary builds a wonderful barrel and all of mine have been simply excellent. Actually, I've had perhaps twenty Schneiders and have never had a bad one. Heck, I have never owned a Schneider that was mediocre ... they simply shoot and give exceptional throat life.

A three-contour Schneider is my idea of the perfect big game barrel. Absolutely.

Steve



"God Loves Each Of Us As If There Were Only One Of Us"
Saint Augustine of Hippo - AD 397







Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,088
N
Campfire Outfitter
OP Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
N
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,088
I'll call Schneider and see what he recommends.

BTW Varmint Hunter does not list #48 and 49 as available. I've sent them an e-mail to confirm.

Thanks for taking the time Steve!


“Factio democratica delenda est"
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,400
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,400
Thanks for the info Steve. Your posts are always highly informational a joy to read.


Rick
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,935
H
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,935
Steve always has some cool comments on rifles.

I think your should consider a lighter barrel.

I used a no. 4 contour Douglas in a .280 Rem that I used for metallic silhouette, and a no. 3 Shilen in my 6.5-'06 for hunting. Now I think they are both too heavy so I asked Melvin Forbes to use a no. 2 stainless Douglas barrel 24" long in the '06 he built for me in 2006.

If you are hunting big game heat won't be a problem.

When I was shooting NRA rifle competition we called the Krieger barrels "high master barrels", because you had to be a High Master to get the full benefit of the barrel.

jim


LCDR Jim Dodd, USN (Ret.)
"If you're too busy to hunt, you're too busy."
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,400
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,400
I went with a #3 Schneider on my 280AI @ 24" in McMillan Mountain rifle stock. Right at 8lbs with a 13oz scope.


Rick
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Kahuna Emeritus &
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Kahuna Emeritus &
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,423

Doug (NYRifleman),

Check your PM box. You'll be a happy guy.

Off to Lurkdom,

Your friend Steve


"God Loves Each Of Us As If There Were Only One Of Us"
Saint Augustine of Hippo - AD 397







Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,088
N
Campfire Outfitter
OP Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
N
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,088
Yup I sure am!

Thanks Steve!


“Factio democratica delenda est"
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 335
B
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
B
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 335
Keep giving me info people, my 6.5-280 ackley should be done real soon. No 4 Bartlien 8.5 twist on a Model 70 push feed, with an exhibition English Walnut stock I did my self.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,961
M
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
M
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,961
Thanks, Steve. Great read as usual. When it comes to the improved cartridges, Steve's knowledge about them is legendary. When he writes about them it is time to listen and learn.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

581 members (007FJ, 1minute, 12344mag, 1badf350, 163bc, 06hunter59, 60 invisible), 2,638 guests, and 1,342 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,191,597
Posts18,473,504
Members73,941
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.163s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8968 MB (Peak: 1.0571 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-04-27 23:53:22 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS