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Campfire Outfitter
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I think you guys are just getting hung up on the word "gather".
-Bob F.
I think your right. I prefer the word transmitter.A scope is a device for transmitting protons.A scope with a bigger transmitter, transmits more of them. dave
![[Linked Image]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Logo_Schmidt_%26_Bender.jpg) Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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that is the term that S&B uses.
Have you maybe wondered that a German company might not be the best at English word use?  ........................DJ From Webster's on line dictionary 2 entries found. 1gather (verb) 2gather (noun) Main Entry: 1gath�er Pronunciation: \ˈga-thər also ˈge-\ Function: verb Inflected Form(s): gath�ered; gath�er�ing \ˈgath-riŋ, ˈga-thə-\ Etymology: Middle English gaderen, from Old English gaderian; akin to Middle High German gadern to unite � more at good Date: before 12th century transitive verb 1: to bring together : collect <tried to gather a crowd> <gathered firewood> 2 a: pick , harvest <gather flowers> b: to pick up or amass as if by harvesting <gathering ideas for the project> c: to scoop up or take up from a resting place <gathered the child up in his arms> 3: to serve as an attraction for : accumulate <books gathering dust> 4: to effect the collection of <gather contributions> 5 a: to summon up <gathered his courage> b: to gain by gradual increase <gather speed> c: to prepare (as oneself) by mustering strength d: to gain or regain control of <gathered his wits> 6: to reach a conclusion often intuitively from hints or through inferences <I gather that you want to leave> 7 a: to pull (fabric) along a line of stitching so as to draw into puckers b: to draw about or close to something <gathering her cloak about her> c: to bring together the parts of <gathered her hair into a ponytail> d: to assemble (the signatures of a book) in sequence for binding e: to haul in <the sailors gathered the sails> intransitive verb 1 a: to come together in a body b: to cluster around a focus of attraction 2 a: to swell and fill with pus b: grow , increase <the gathering crisis> � gath�er�er \-thər-ər\ noun synonyms gather , collect , assemble , congregate mean to come or bring together into a group, mass, or unit. gather is the most general term for bringing or coming together from a spread-out or scattered state <a crowd quickly gathered>. collect often implies careful selection or orderly arrangement <collected books on gardening>. assemble implies an ordered union or organization of persons or things often for a definite purpose <experts assembled for a conference>. congregate implies a spontaneous flocking together into a crowd or huddle <congregating under a shelter>. Also from Webster's online dictionary
Main Entry: trans�mit
Pronunciation: \tran(t)s-ˈmit, tranz-\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): trans�mit�ted; trans�mit�ting
Etymology: Middle English transmitten, from Latin transmittere, from trans- + mittere to send
Date: 15th century
transitive verb
1 a: to send or convey from one person or place to another : forward b: to cause or allow to spread: as (1): to convey by or as if by inheritance or heredity : hand down (2): to convey (infection) abroad or to another
2 a (1): to cause (as light or force) to pass or be conveyed through space or a medium (2): to admit the passage of : conduct <glass transmits light> b: to send out (a signal) either by radio waves or over a wire
intransitive verb
It certainly appears that S&B is using English more correctly IMHO
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire 'Bwana
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A larger lense has more light casting on it, .... Well, exactly..... that means it is gathering more light! I think you guys are just getting hung up on the word "gather". -Bob F. Light is transmitted through a lens, not gathered through a lens. Turn the light on in your house go to the other end of the room and "gather some light and bring it back to the other end of the room. One can direct the light to the other end of the room, one can also reflect the light to the other end of the room, one can concentrate the light to the other end of the room, but one can not gather the light and take it to the other end of the room. Walk along a trail and pick berries, that is something that one can gather.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Obviously , hunting must be slow.Leaves a lot of time to argue .There is a lot more to the light that gets thru than just the objective size.The best glass and coatings have more to do with it than just objective size.The difference between a 44 and 50 is a whole 6mm.I would take an expensive 36mm over a cheap 50 anyday.I have had 60mm swaro and used a 80mm swaro spotting scope. Your are talking 51% difference is objective lense area and yet you have to use both in some extremely demanding situations to see a difference.
Also I am curious of those who had there exit pupils measured. Was that before or after the doctor dilated their pupils.?Just as eyesight diminishes and pupils harden with age so generally does the abilbity of the pupil to dilate.
A bigger rake will gather more leaves.
"We are building a dictatorship of relativism which recoqnizes nothing as definitive and whose ultimate goal consists solely of ones own self ego and desires."Cardinal Rathzinger
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foogle, As mentioned before my 7.2mm pupil were measured BEFORE the dialation fluid. They were over 11mm afterwards.
From a German Optiks source:
Res�mee: das Astronomische Fernrohr kann gedeutet werden:
als Kombination zweier Sammellinsen,
als fotografisches Teleobjektiv mit hinten angebrachter Lupe,
als umgekehrtes Mikroskop,
als Basiskonstruktion f�r etwa 10 weitere Fernrohrtypen.
You might look up the definition of "sammeln" and "sammellinsen".
In the end a couple references from Leupold and S&B say that scopes don't "Gather" light. Most other references including those in German by the way say that's exactly what they do. People are going to believe what they want to believe. I think that S&B and Leupold are wrong here because there are 50 times as many references that say just the opposite, look them up for yourself if you don't believe me.................................DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
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It all boils down to this. I think they help "ME" and I will continue to use them. If you like a smaller scope that is what you should use. miles
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I checked with Meade Optical this morning about the term gather or transmit and they said..............
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That's pretty funny!! 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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+1 Best thing I saw in this whole thread.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Just keepin it real, Brad.............I thought it was funny as well
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Gosh guys, it looks like I stirred up a hornets nest with this thread. I think Miles said it best. It all boils down to this. I think they help "ME" and I will continue to use them. If you like a smaller scope that is what you should use. miles I like the smaller scopes. I do have a Leupold VX-III with a 50mm lens and it does gather/transmit a little more light than my VX-II 2-7x33's and my smaller VX-III's. But, I don't think it gives me enough of a gain to justify messing up the balance or handling qualities of my light rifles. So my big VX-III sits on my heavy beanfield rifle.
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I think a lot of it is perceived value. Guys see a big scope and think it must be better. It's the same with the price of the scope. I think most guys don't have a clue about light transmission, exit pupil, and other such technical details. They only know what they think and what they learn from experience. As in most things, when guys get older and gain experience, they tend to moderate toward the middle-of-the-road in such matters. Big scopes do some jobs better, small scopes do some jobs better, and middling scopes do a little bit of everything. There are good reasons why middle-of-the-road 3-9x40 scopes are so popular. My flattest-shooting big game rifle wears a Leupy Vari-X III 3.5-10x40 that I bought second-hand. When I crank it up to 10x, a small deer at 300 yards looks like he is a stone's throw away. Can't say I need more than that for deer hunting.
-
Our God reigns.
Harrumph!!!
I often use quick reply. My posts are not directed toward any specific person unless I mention them by name.
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I checked with Meade Optical this morning about the term gather or transmit and they said..............
建设中
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Yea, I gotta admit that was pretty funny. I'm sure that one of those is Chinese for "Gathering" ...............................DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
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While we may be getting hung up on the word "gather", if we do agree that gather means to bring together, to concentrate - much as one might collect berries into a container, then it might be difficult to argue that a lense isn't also "gathering" light if you consider what a simple hand lens does with the sun's rays when held over piece of paper. Obviously one isn't creating anything that wasn't already there however. Perhaps there are better terms one might use purely for the sake of communication. Since "gathering" is usually associated with "light" in the promotion of optical instruments however, all bets are off on being true to perfectly sincere literary text. One doesn't have to be especially sharp to understand the bias in a promotional setting.
Good glass is easily discerned when you see more detail with lower power - high quality glass than you can with higher power- lower quality glass. It is pretty rare though, when I need any more than the fingers on one hand to count the amount of seconds I look through a rifle scope at a single moment while hunting. I already know whether I will shoot when I raise my rifle.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I am going to "gather" some light today and use it tonight when I'll need it more Main Entry: trans�mit
Pronunciation: \tran(t)s-ˈmit, tranz-\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): trans�mit�ted; trans�mit�ting
Etymology: Middle English transmitten, from Latin transmittere, from trans- + mittere to send
Date: 15th century
transitive verb
1 a: to send or convey from one person or place to another : forward b: to cause or allow to spread: as (1): to convey by or as if by inheritance or heredity : hand down (2): to convey (infection) abroad or to another
2 a (1): to cause (as light or force) to pass or be conveyed through space or a medium (2): to admit the passage of : conduct <glass transmits light> b: to send out (a signal) either by radio waves or over a wire
intransitive verb
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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I'm thinking you disperse light when you can - many lights use not only diffusers, but also reflectors to soften glare, and also make more effective use of what light is available. None of them make something that isn't already there. But some things prevent light from being absorbed right away so it appears that there is more. Gathering light isn't a bad term when it refers to focusing it - something a lense can do quite easily and obviously. It's a poor term when it is used to suggest that a certain lense or group of them is creating more somehow; when it's used deceptively - which I'll admit is probably true in some cases for advertising.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Transmit is exactly what happens and that is the term that S&B uses. Taking the available ambient light and as you call it bundling it together is not gathering, one gathers nuts, not light.
....Of course this is "Gathering" .Just as when leaves found spread over a larger area are raked into a smaller concentrated pile. The leaves are "Gathered" according to one of the definitions in Websters dictionary for our English word "Gather".This is exactly what a good lens, by way of it's surface configurations does with light photons.They are gathered into focused beams of light images varying in apparent size to the eye by way of the gathering process through chosen lens. Were lens ONLY to "Transmit" light, no magnification, or diminishment, of image size would occur. Lens do, of course, transmit light, but thankfully, since we seek magnification,through optics, they also gather the received light photons together.Your window panes "transmit" light, but optically cut and shaped lens do far more with light photons than solely transmit them, they both gather, and disperse, light according to how they have been cut and polished.
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Which will have a brighter image in dim light? (all true 1x, all coatings, etc. being equal)
1. A 1 inch no-lens cardboard scope (like Ruger mounts on their Frontier rifles)
2. A 1 inch straight tube 1x scope (like old Weaver K-1)
3. A inch straight tube variable set on 1x (like Weaver V3)
4. A 36-40mm objective variable scope set on 1 power (like??)
Bruce
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It all boils down to this. I think they help "ME" and I will continue to use them. If you like a smaller scope that is what you should use. miles Well said Miles! Just think, only 7 more months till hunting season! Fortunately in BC we have a spring bear season in April so the cabin fever relief will come sooner. I think I'll "transmit" on down to the basement and "gather" my reloading gear together for coyote and wolf control bullets this weekend...
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I need to ask a question.
Assumptions:
I have two rifle scopes and both have identical lenses in terms of quality.
Both telescopes transmit 90% of the light entering the objective, to the ocular.
One scope has a 44 mm objective.
The other scope has a 32 mm objective.
The larger objective scope is a 3-9 variable.
The smaller objective scope is a fixed 4x.
I set the variable scope to 4x to comapre to the fixed 4x scope.
The larger objective scope will deliver a pencil of light that is 11mm in diameter, out of its eyepiece.
The fixed scope deliveres a pencil of light that is 8mm out of its eyepiece.
My eyes on the day that I compare the two scopes have exit pupils that open to 4mm.
On the larger obelective scope, I place my right eye 4mm pupil inside a beam of light that is 11mm's in diameter.
On the fixed power scope, I place my right eye 4mm pupil inside an 8mm beam of light.
Please explain why the larger objective scope will deliver an image to my right eye retina that is more clear looking through the large objective scope than the smaller objective scope, given the assumptions above?
TIA,
Don
Don Buckbee
JPFO
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DMB, In your example the 2 scopes will probably look identical. Use a better example like say 2 3-9scopes one with a 32mm obj and one with a 44mm obj and set them both on 9x and let someone with more normal pupils and they will most certainly see a difference in low light.
But if you really do have pupils that will only dialate to 4mm you probably won't be able to take much advantage out of a larger objective. This might account for some of the reports from people who claim they don't make a difference - they don't for them!..................................DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
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