Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only 450/400 NE 3" Hornady Load Data

The following load data arrived today by snail mail from Hornady.

Since I've read more than once that 2050 is a sweet spot mv for this
caliber, I'm gonna work up to max loads of RL-15 and H4350 in my #1
and see what gives.

Enjoy!

Cartridge: 450/400 NE 3"
Bullet: 400 gr. RN SD: .340 BC: .319
Rifle: Ruger #1 Barrel: Factory Length: 24" Twist: 1 in 14"
Primer: Federal 215 Case: Hornady C.O.L.: 3.685"

Velocity:.......1800.....1900.......2000......2050......2100......2150
--------------------------------------------------------------
Powder
RL-15_______53.7____57.8____61.9____64.0

H4350_______62.6____65.9____69.2____70.9

IMR 4831____67.7____71.9____76.2____78.3

H4831_______69.3____74.5____79.7____82.3

Norma MRP___71.9____76.0____80.0____82.0____84.0

RL-19_______73.5____76.8____80.1____81.8____83.4

IMR 7828____73.9____77.4____80.9____82.6

AA 3100_____73.2____77.4____81.6____83.7____85.8____87.9

Viht N165____75.2____79.1____83.0____85.0____87.0____88.9

H1000_______78.2____82.0____85.9____87.8


NOTICE OF DISCLAIMER: THIS DATA WAS DEVELOPED IN THE HORNADY MFG CO.
TEST FACILITIES UNDER CONTROLLED CONDITIONS. AS COMPONENTS AND
CONDITIONS MAY VARY, THE RELOADER SHOULD APPROACH MAXIMUM LOADS
WITH EXTREME CAUTION. HORNADY MFG CO., PO BOX 1848, GRAND ISLAND,
NE 68802 DISCLAIMS ALL RESPONSIBILITY FOR MISHAPS OF ANY NATURE
WHICH MIGHT OCCUR FROM USE OF THIS DATA.

The standard load was 400/60 Cordite, with a 55 gr Tropical load.
Using the CCF (cordite conversion formula) for RL15 we get 60 x 1.19 = 71.4 as a theoretical max.

I worked up to 70/RL15 with Woodleigh softs and 69 with solids, and they regulate beautifully in a double. Expect about 2125-2150.

SOS

SOS,

Were those cordite double barrels typically 24" or 26"?

Pud

Thanks Puddle, havn't gotten the dies yet but should be here next week.

Yup, mine are on the way too. Race ya

Taking a look at the map and your location versus mine from the state MO, I believe I'll take that race.....but then again, who knows. We'll see how it goes....

Pud,
The ones I chrono'd are 24".

SOS

I have owned, hunted with and shot more than a few of the 450-400s ( my all time favorite double rifle caliber ) and I believe 2050 FPS is not the sweet spot, either in killing power or accuracy..All of my guns both English and a couple of Searcys shot best at 2125 to 2150 FPS...They all shot best with IMR-4831 followed by RL-15 in every case.

To be more specific they all seemed to cook best using 400 gr. Woodleighs with 82 grs of IMR-4831 at an average for 10 shots, taking out the high and low, of 2134 FPS and they all regulated at that load. Two Jefferys, One Army/Navy and three Searcys as well as a couple of rifles owned by a friend of mine.

Another load that I had excellent results with was 71.5 grs of RL-15 and the 380 gr. Northfork or GS Customs flat nose or Cup Points..It was a super accurate in every double I shot it in.

I had some good luck in several of the above rifles with 85 grs. of RL-22 and 400 gr. woodleighs at 2143 FPS..

I submit this for your information only and suggest you start at a couple of grs. below and work up, but none of these loads are out of specs pressure wise..They are loads that were required to tweek the regulation in the rifles used. They normally shot about an inch or two higher than the Hornady loads, but they were more accurate in the above guns.

I believe that 2050 FPS is cheating yourself in the killing dept. with the 40 calibers, fine in a .470 but you do need a boost with the 450-400 IMO..Also there is a definate advantage to 100 FPS in these big bore rifles contrary to what some would have you believe, they are applying what is correct in a 06, 270 or 300 mag wherein a 100 fps is of no consequence, but in the big bores 100 FPS or even 50 is sugnificant IMO.

Great caliber you have there. All you will ever need, at least short of Jurrasic Park.

Valuable feedback Ray, and thanks.

Looking forward to finding out how the #1's compare to the double rifles wrt this Hornady load data.

Now if I could just get someone to loan me their double...just for testing purposes, of course.

Pud

Might also add a fun BPE load to your mix.

I am loading for a buddy who has a custom barreled 450-400 Ruger #1.(Badger 26") We use a good 255 gr. Keith style pistol bullet (sized to .410)over 44 grains of H Or IMR 4198 plus about 11 grains of dacron filler--no air space allowed. Very low pressure and I seem to remember getting around 1750 fps.
Bullet weight and precise powder charge depends on what your Ruger likes.

Killing power comes from the flat nose, don't try this with a round nose bullet on deer sized animals. Recoil is negligible but this combo will sure unzip a Texas whitetail or hog when shot through the "vital triangle." Stuffing dacron is not exactly fun but run it in there with the eraser end of a #2 pencil. Cheap thrills and a blast to shoot.

the load that Champlin Arms worked up to regulate my Watson Bros. double in the 3 1/4 in. version is 69 grains of RL-15 with the 400 grain Woodleighs, with 1 gr of poly filler, and Federal 215 primers. 2150 from my 26 in barrels.

I've handloaded for a few doubles, three 450/400 3" and one 3 1/4". All three of the 3" guns, two old Jeffery tiger guns, all found regulation velocity at close to 2150 fps. I believe this was the original ballistics for the caliber also.

The woodleigh's at .411" solid or soft will assuredly regulate in doubles at about 2150 fps.

I also have a Ruger #1 in the caliber and found 2200 fps to be the most accurate load with RL-15 and woodleighs, I've not tried the Hornady bullets. The Ruger is capable of 400's at 2400 but you may not want that level and it will take a strong bullet to hunt at that velocity. When I scoped this Ruger it gave three shots touching from 100 yards with the RL-15 and 400 Woodleighs.

I'm sure the Hornady data is for safety for the old doubles but nbot necessarilly to regulate and I think they are .410" bullets.

Interesting reading about the doubles regulating best at ~2150.

Now I don't know diddly squat about doubles and I don't know if Krieghoff ever explicity says they regulate their double with Hornady factory fodder, but they sure do hint at it!

Krieghoff Classic 450/400 NE 3"

The Hornady factory ammo I have are labeled with a nominal mv of 2050. Go figure.

Loading the 450-400 in a Ruger no.1 and a double rifle cannot be discussed in the same thread...

You can load a Ruger no. 1 far beyond what you can load a double rifle...I would venture to suggest that I could safely load a Ruger no.1 in 450-400 to full 404 Jefferys loads of 2400 FPS with a 400 gr. bullet as I know several friends that do that. On an English made double rifle I would hesitate to go beyond 2150 FPS unless it was a Searcy and then I would not go beyond 2200 FPS.

I suspect that today most 450-400s will come regulated to the Hornady ammo, and most of those guns will shoot a faster 2100 FPS bullet to very near the same POI as the Hornady..I have found that 100 FPS makes little differnce in POI on doubles, but it might not shoot as close a group as the regulated load or it may shoot a better group, as it may close up to cross over as the velocity goes up, so one needs to test it and know were each bullet impacts the target. A cross over group is not a good thing no matter how small the group is, that is time to back off 1/2 gr. at a time until they do not cross. Do this because they keep crossing over more and more as the range increases..

Uhh...that thing-a-ma-jig behind the die box....

Is that in case I whine that you cheated?

Puddle, lol, hadn't really thought of that. It might work though.....
I'll bet your set is on the mule headed west..I think I noticed it going by this afternoon.

Steve NO,
You might want to chronograph that load...It shouldn't get that kind of velocity with that load, none of mine would. It is very mild and remember these companies are law suit scared and running, and might figure that you would never know the differnce....but you never know with rifles.

As to the 450-400's everyone I have owned doted on 82 grs. of IMR-4831...followed by RL-15. I almost always used a filler in the 3.25 inch..

Ol mule staggered in today....must have pulled an all nighter....

Alright! Good to hear. I wasn't sure he would make it, didn't look real good yesterday.

This is the first set of hornady dies I have seen or aquired. What do you think of that burr sticking through the side of the seating die?