Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Cowboy Action Shooting Winchester Model 1892 SRC 38-40

While in Cody last summer at the gun show, I was able to find this original Winchester carbine in 38-40.







While looking the gun over I noticed the Montana Armory stamp on the stock. The seller thought this was a Montana prison gun, I informed him it was a gun sold in a store in Bozeman, called "Montana Armory".



I paid a lot of money for the rifle for it's unique provenance, and he didn't come down much as I showed too much interest. I got back to Bozeman and started researching Montana Armory and didn't find much. What I did find was a picture of Main Street, Bozeman with Montana Armory located there....



I also found a handbill advertising the store and it's goods, including, of all things, scalps...



I was able to get a white copy of the Cody serial number verification...

[img]http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/scan0006-2.jpg[/img]

I was even more fortunate to find someone at the gunshow that would look up the rifle in the actual ledger and photo copy that for me....

[img]http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/scan0005-2.jpg[/img]

If there is anyone out there with more information on the Montana Armory, I would like to get that information from you.

Thanks, Shrapnel

Very cool, and with provenance it is worth more.

Assuming the provenance is authentic! You need to pay close attention to the top of the receipt and it's very clear that this is not a factory letter or Cody Yellow sheet. That's why is says "Do NOT accept as verification of firearm configuration". That's just a SN verification and there is no indication where that firearm was shipped. Hopefully some one didn't forge that stamp to jack up the price. The first step is to get an actual letter from the CFM. That receipt is dated in 2003!
I'd also suggest not posting a full SN on the internet.
I sincerely hope you didn't pay much more for the "provenance". If it was indeed a prison gun and authenticated it would be worth more. Being from a select dealer really won't do a lot for the value.

Yellow sheets are not yellow anymore. These records are from the Museum but don't qualify as a letter due to the ability to copy them.

The date is 2008, the copy is not that clear.

This is not a prison gun but a gun from the Montana Armory which was a store in Bozeman from 1884-1914. I have seen another Winchester of the same era with the identical stamp. Being from that store does increase the value of the gun over what it would be unmarked.

Getting more provenance also helps to verify the gun as well as increase it's value. I have been looking specifically for these types if guns. I have gotten 2 marked Browning Bros.; 3 W.F. Sheard, Livingston, Montana; 1 Walter Cooper, Bozeman, Montana Territory; and this Montana Armory gun.

I keep looking...

Look closely at the ledger you have a copy of. There is no indication at all where the gun was shipped so you do not have any verification of "provenance". You may also notice that it's the only gun that shipped on that date. This is not a special order gun so if a store like this would have ordered they likely would have ordered more than one gun. Look at the order on the ledger just underneath yours. Three guns, all the same configuration.
Not the most detailed photos but I would be wondering how that upper and lower tang became so proud of the butt stock while that stamp is still 99% crisp after 108 years.
The information you have thus far adds no value even though it is interesting. The silver lining is that it obviously holds some intinsic value to you.

O.K. Mr. Poopy Pants,

I should have asked you before I bought this gun, but I'm glad I didn't. Since you know so much, tell me more.

If you knew a bit more, you would know that Winchester didn't letter guns to where they were shipped, but only what shipment the gun was in. Colt will letter the gun to where it was shipped.

The scoundrels that were doping up all the paperwork I have, spent time in 1901 doing that, just so some sucker like me would fall for this scam.

How you are so well informed that this is not a special order gun amazes me too, I couldn't get that information from what I read.

You have left me breathless with all your knowledge. I was hoping to find out more about Montana Armory in Bozeman, maybe you could take time out of palm reading this week and ask your crystal ball about this.

I await your clairvoyance with great anticipation.

BINGO! That's exactly why your document is not showing any provenance. It simply shows a standard 38-40 Carbine shipped on that date. You have not shown any verification at all from Winchester that the gun was shipped to this location. You have no verification from the dealer that the gun was sold at this location. Even if you did the premium that would bring over another 38-40 SRC is absolutly nominal. If you have been lead (pun intended) to believe that the value would approach that of an authenticated prison gun then you sir have indeed been duped.



All what paperwork? You have nothing but a photocopy of a ledger page. There is no question your gun is in the proper configuration as shipped assuming that ledger is a correct and
unaltered copy. Were you under the impression that it would be difficult for an unethical dealer (imagine that at a gun show) to stamp a stock like that? Because in the last 108 years there has never been a Winchester altered or a spurious copy sold.....Right?
You seem to be a expert, of sorts so I'm still waiting on your explanation for why the upper and lower tang is WELL proud of that buttstock (any collector should know what that typically indicates) and how it is that the cartouche is in near mint condition after all that hard use. There's not even a blemish on it!



Well considering the expanse of your knowledge on the topic I can't say I'm the least bit suprised. A 1892 SRC 38-40 was a standard configuration gun. If there were special order features from the factory during this time frame they would be noted on the ledger. You may want to go back and look at the notes for some of the other guns on that page. If you had an actual Cody letter instead of some photocopy then it would spell it out in plain english and perhaps alleviate your confusion.
Although I now have my doubts.
Either way I hope you enjoy it.

Allright, this is for TLEE, as he seems to be the only spectator, and against better judgement I continue...

Stetson,

When you have your mom read this one to you ask her why you keep referring to the gun as a "prison gun". I have made no indication that I thought it was, conversely, I know it is not.

Mom, would you also explain to junior that hard use is not part of this gun, then please show him the pictures again and let him see that the bluing is still mostly covering the whole gun.

If he hasn't been sent to bed yet, would you also slip a Valium pill into his warm milk before you read him a bedtime story, and tomorrow everything will be O.K. and hopefully he won't bother you or me about this again.

I think it is a neat piece of history that you can connect to the history of your area. And that was all I picked out of your initial post. OH WELL, I don't like to argue either.

Apparantly you need glasses to go with your sarcasm. I never said it was a prison gun. However in your initial post you indicated "The seller thought this was a Montana prison gun".
I notice you still don't have an explanation for that stock being well below the metal.
Mom says that I shouldn't show you a real Sheard stamp because you might get upset when you see that Sheard did not stamp his letters one at a time in an uneven line. I wondered if Lee24 was posting under another handle. Now I know.
Lets take a closer look at that stock.
Whoops.