Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Retro/Obsolete Cartridges

303 Brit (No1 Mk1* 1902 vintage)
303-25 (Lithgow SMLE 1942 vintage)
another 303 Brit (No4 MkI* Longbranch 1942 vintage)
22 Hornet (Anschutz 1431/32 1947 vintage)
375/303 aka 303-375 (almost identical to the 38-55) in the building. (No1 Mk1 nineteen very old vintage)

I notice a lot of folks say the 257 is their favourite. The 303-25 is my favourite! (Very close to the 257).

How about a Remington m24 in .22 short. Not exactly obsolete, yet, but darned close................

hey guys--what's the difference between a 180 grain '06 at 2700fps in 1940 and a 180 grain '06 at 2700fps in 2009?

in my opinion where does the obsolete or retro cartridge come into play versus the new whizzzbzng cartridges of 2009.

When I started the post, I figured Retro and Obsolete are two different things. I still think this.

Retro is an oldie-but-goodie that may be past its prime but is still holding on.

Obsolete is: no one really chambers this cartridge anymore because something else has come along that is easier to deal with and performs just as well if-not-better. Kinda like the 7x57 Mauser or 7mm STW or 300 H&H.

Dan360,

really, calling the 7x57 obsolete...

There is 7 companies offering about 17 factory loads in 7x57 in Europe. The cartridge has a stellar reputation in Africa for plains game.

Its going strong - if not in the US, well your own lookout.

Well, it stands admitted, that you have covered the 7mm segment rather well between the 7mm-08 for short actions, the .280 rem. for Standard an all those cartridges for the "Mag-Pies".

i just built a 6.5x55 on a m98 action. i plan on keeping the Swede current as long as i can.

i have explained to hunters and shooters what the swede is and the bullet weights available and they say "man that would be a great deer cartridge..."

no kidding.

-Matt

Dan,
Ruger is still chambering the .257 Roberts, 6.5x55, 7x57, and .300 H&H.
Savage is also still Chambering the .250 Savage and the .300 Savage.
CZ 500 in the 6.5x55 and 9.3x62 can also be bought here in the US.

Got a .30 Newton, .264 Win Mag and .358 Norma Mag (sort of, chambering issues)

Exactly, Obsolete! There may be 17 factory loads for the 7x57 and maybe 2 or 3 companies chamber a rifle for it, but you don't see hardly any of that in the US. I would be pleasantly surprised if the 7x57 even lands in the top 25 in ammo sales. No US firearms company makes an action for the 57mm cases. Actions are almost always short, long and magnum/full size. The fact that a chassis isn't dedicated for the mauser line of cartridges tells me that its obsolete. Sure, its probably pretty popular and the sentimental favorite of many. I bet the number of loads and ammo sales for the 243, 25-06, 270, 7mm-08, 280, 7mm Rem Mag, 308, 30-06, 300 WSM, 300 Win mag and 338 Win Mag are far more numerous than any of mauser-based cartridges.

Yeah, the 257, 6.5x55, 7x57 and 300 H&H are available in some rifles. And mostly in special runs at that. I had to look a long time before I even found a Ruger No. 1A in 7x57. Of the four cartridges, the 257 Bob is probably the most available and if you don't want a Ruger M77 or Kimber 84M, you're SOL.

If they aren't chambered in nearly EVERY MAJOR factory offering, you gotta wonder. I think the only reason the 257 Bob hangs on is that the 25 Souper isn't a factory cartridge. If it were, there goes the Bob. Even the 243 has nearly eliminated the bob in that niche even though its in a different bore size.

I'm not saying that obsolete cartridges aren't cool. This thread is to demonstrate how cool they are. Not to say they should go the way of the dodo. But they have been rendered obsolete by more efficient and practical designs.

You won't see me giving up my 7x57 any time soon. Not even for a 7mm-08!

Krags and Swedes. And one Krag chambered in Swede.

This was my grandfathers 30-40. I'm just putting together a fresh batch of 220 gr. corelocks together now for it.
Doc

Dan,
Ruger has been chambering M77's in .257 Roberts and 7x57 for years. Ruger is chambering the M77 RSI in the 6.5x55 as a special run. Ruger is chambering the M77 Frontier Rifle in the .358 Win and they have been cataloging this for several years. Ruger is also chambering the the M77 Hawkeye in the .257 Roberts, .264 Win. Mag., .35 Whelen, and .358 Win. These last four are not special runs. The .257 Roberts is also chambered in the Hawkeye UL. In the No. 1-A Light Sporters and the No. 1 RSI they are chambering 7x57 as a standard item. This year they are offering the 300 H&H in a No. 1-A Medium Sporter as a special runs and the 9.3x74R.

As I understand it if Ruger Distributor will order at least 250 rifles of any model and chambering Ruger will make a limited run.

Also as I understand it if the U.S. CZ Distributor will order at least 10 rifles of any model and chambering CZ makes and will ship the to the U.S

So what if "they aren't chambered in nearly EVERY MAJOR factory offering", at least they are offered in some. Therefore they are not obsolete. They are retro-cartridges.

Dan,

there is more to the world than the US of A.

obsolete means - "out of use"

The 7x57 never was "in use" in the US. So it can not be called obsolete, especially when, in the countries, where it has been used from the beginning, it is going strong. No end in sight.

As for the system length question -

COAL .30-06 3.340"
COAL 7 x 57 3.074"

Difference .266". I rest my case.

Just my two cents.

All the best.

I like some retro cartridges. The ones I shoot the most are below. They tend to fill in gaps or in the case of the Norma have design features I feel are superior enough to make fooling with the cartridge rather than the more common equivalent worth it.

In addition to the ones you mention I have the 250 Savage, 308 Norma Magnum and 35 Whelen. My Whelen and one of the Norma's are military conversions. The Whelen was a custom but it had too short a throat for the TBBC Bearclaw loading so I had it SAAMI chambered and long throated. I would still call it retro.

The 25-35, 300 Savage,.30-40 Krag [in an 1895 Winchester], 32-20, 25-20, and 348 Winchester have all passed through my hands too and some will likely do so again.

6.5X55 swede in a M700 classic is my go-to rifle, i also shoot a .358 win, 35 Whelen and recently a model seven magnum in 7mm SAUM which is just about obsolete, or soon to be.

I agree. There is more to the world than the US. I would guess that world wide, there are still far more popular cartridges than the 7x57. I still love the cartridge though.

And .266 is plenty to argue and banter about! That's a whole 6mm! Think about all of the people who argue about the 270 and 280. The difference is only .007 there. Just playing. I see your point.

Where in Germany are you located? My grandfather did a great deal of hunting in Germany. He had twin rifles built in 6.5x57 and 8x57 while in Germany. Both on K98 actions. The barrel on the 8x57 is a turned-down MG42 barrel. Both rifles wear Pecar scopes in claw mounts. My grandfather took a nice moose in Alaska with that 8mm.

I understand what you are saying, but the lack of available rifles renders a lot of these calibers obscure to your average hunter. Why have a Ruger Hawkeye in 264 Win Mag when you can have a 7mm Rem Mag in almost any rifle you want? Both are based around roughly the same case and perform in a similar way, with the 7mm being more versatile. See what I mean? There is a reason that many companies have dropped these cartridges as offerings. Why have a full-length action in a 300 H&H when you can have a 30-06 length action chambered in 300 Win Mag?

I think that most rifle loonies, myself included could answer those questions because we love certain cartridges and rifles. On the other hand, many hunters buy a "huntin' rifle" to do all of their hunting. Most of those guys don't care about the history of the 300 H&H or 7x57. Most don't care about what a 264 Win Mag can do with a 26 inch barrel. I'd bet good money that most just want a rifle to hunt with that they like. I'd also bet good money that they want something chambered in a cartridge that they can buy at any sporting goods store.

Dan,

location is roughly 60 miles north east of Berlin.
Pretty much best hunting around here - pigs, all the deer and mufflon sheep.

You guys still have those rifles in 6,5x57 and 8x57 IS?

CMG:

Unfortunately, we only have one of those rifles. We have the 6.5x57 but the 8x57 was taken in a burglary. Its really unfortunate because on the market, its probably worth very little. The claw mounts for the scope are probably worth more than the rifle itself. However, it was worth much more to our family.