Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns How come so many LE Agencies have switched from the 9mm?

Are there any opinions that available Fed money to fight the war on drugs and then terrorism might have influenced some forces to change to .40/.45, that would not have changed otherwise? I never appreciated the 9mm until the new HP ammo, now it's my home defense weapon.

Yep, when you have unlimited funds, you can afford to switch frequently to keep up with whatever the latest trend is.

The Silvertip in question was a standard pressure 115 grain Silvertip, not a +P

Also, the Silvertip is aluminum jacketed, and designed with maximum expansion in mind. That's old fashioned thinking by modern standards. You want controlled expansion.

I always thought that the reason 9mm handguns held more ammo was because you needed more ammo to get the job done, right?


Uh, I hear my Mama calling, gotta run...

Actually, Silvertips haven't been aluminum jacketed in decades. It turned out that aluminum was too hard and was impairing expansion, so they went back to copper. They just wash the bullets in something to make them silver in finish so they can still be Silvertips.

They heard Lee24 didn't approve of it, and that was that.

You and Kevin are................Brutal !!!!!



MM

Some reasons Police changed from the 9mm too the 40 S&W...

1. After the Miami massacre the FBI decided that bullet penetration was all important. The bureau changed to the a heavier subsonic 147 grain 9mm load. The least effective 9mm JHP at terminal expanding. They made the 9mm less effective in doing so.

2. The FBI went to the 10mm Auto, then to the 40 S&W. What the FBI uses is the accepted standard in law enforcement circles.

3. Gun companies aggressively marketed the 40 S&W as a better round.

4. The 9mm was not as terminally effective as the 10mm Auto, 40 S&W, or the 45 ACP after penetrating through auto glass and car doors.

10 ring Steve!

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The funding isn't as unlimited as you truly believe. Fed. grants are based upon need they just don't go to whoever wants them. You have to show reason and need. Your experience and firsthand knowledge in this is?

The biggest advacators of change was the LE sales staff of the firearms makers. The want to make money and push products. I've seen deals such as Glock trading an entire stock of an agencies S&W 1006's and replacing them for free with G22's & G23's. I've watched Sig do the samething trading 229's for Ruger P94's. This along with another agency that traded Beretta's for Glocks.

The firearms Co's made their money back selling the weapons to either wholesale US buyers or to international buyer's. What it truly costs these firearms Co's to make these guns and trade them to LE, is so far below what Joe Public would ever pay. The firearms Co's aren't going to lose money on the deal.

Kevin,

You're right........I looked it up and it's not listed as +P.

However at 1225 FPS, compared to a 110 gr 357 @ 1275 and a 125 gr 38 +P @ 945 FPS, to my own way of thinking, that really does put it in the "+P" category, velocity wise.

But the Silvertip really is a pretty frangible bullet in most calibers, IMO.

MM

9mm is fine! Use the improved ammo that was not there in the 86 shootout, do your part, and it will all work out. 15+1 and you cannot get it done? PLEASE!

Hirtenberger conical soft point 110-gr at 1250 fps is the best 9x19 rounds I have ever seen. There is also a 100-gr at 1300 fps, and a +P+ at nearly 1500 fps from a submachinegun. It is designed for use ONLY in a locking subgun like an MP-5 or AR-15.

Personally, I think it is more about platform than load. Police administrators think differently nowadays, than they did twenty years ago when the 9 took over the law enforcement market from the .38 Special. Back then, a gun was supposed to last indefinitely. Now, there is a life expectancy for a gun. Thus you have the opportunity to go with the latest caliber and load.

An example is this...the county seat cops traded in their 686's back in the late eighties, on 4506 45 autos. They were issued the former department sidearm which was still extant in the armory, the .38-44 Heavy Duty. Offhand I don't know what year the H-D was discontinued, but I'm thinking the late fifties. I believe it was introduced in the early thirties, so you've got a pretty old gun which they still trusted. Now a police sidearm is considered "old" and about beyond its useful life at ten or so years.

Good point.

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LE to your firearm manufacturer's is a business. This along with LE equipment/firearms supply Co's. It's a multi million dollar business, with customers ranging from local, state and Fed. agencies. These Co's will do whatever they can to sell, trade and promote their products, newer is better.

The fads of 9mm, 10mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP and .357 SIG certainly have put a lot of nice, cheap, little used police handguns on the market.

That's how I got my wife her Glock 17. I'm sure she has put many more rounds though it than the VA Sheriff's Dept it came from. I am currently looking at an array of S&W Model 10s and 19's (pinned) for a knock-about woods gun. good thing they are obsolete.

Yes, I just picked up a Sig 220 after the .45 ACP fad wore off.
Now I am looking for a Smith 3914 or 945 compact.

When Bill Clinton ordered the Post Office to stop keeping a handgun at every counter, I picked up a NIB .357 stamped with the USPS logo - in case I ever want to "go Postal".

The airlines just got through buying SIG .357s and .40 S&Ws for their pilots.
Now Obama wants to disarm them again, so maybe there will be a bunch of those on the market.