Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Lee24 - PUT UP or SHUT UP

Regarding Kevin Gibson's 1st point in the lead posting to this thread which says: "1. The Browning Auto 5's bolt is almost all the way back before the shot leaves the barrel, proving it's working completely on the recoil force."

I am curious about this. The SAAMI approved pressure of a 12 guage shotshell is about 12,000 (14,000 for 3 1/2" shells). If the bolt is "almost all the way back before the shot leaves the barrel" (and shotshells are either plastic or cardboard with a metal head), there is certainly significant pressure remaining in the barrel (maybe 1-2,000 psi?).

Would not this blow out the side of the shell if the bolt was at the rear of the receiver and the shell unsupported? Not trying to start an argument, just learn.

Also, was it not Lee24 who claimed to have seen or owned an FN Model 70 Super Grade in 375 H&H Mag. 6-7 months ago, or was it someone else?

Nope, that was Lee, and when asked for photos he came up with BS excuses on why he wouldn't or couldn't post any photo's. Les

Hi Les. I remember the postings and got a good laugh from them at the time. I am VERY surprised that Les keeps coming back; he must have no other friends.

Hey wait a minute, don't get me conrnfused with that dumbass!

Sorry Les - I meant to say Lee.

I do wonder about the guy (Lee) and what he is really like and how he occupies his time.

Well, we're talking about an auto 5, which has never been made in 3.5" so that's why I'm sticking with the SAAMI for 3 2/4" & 3"

Also, the auto 5 is a long recoil operation, so even though the bolt is almost all the way back, it is still locked to the barrel and the breech is closed. The entire barrel and bolt travel all the way to the rear as a unit. The bolt then locks back in the rear position while it unlocks from the barrel. The barrel then begins its journey forward until the shell clears the barrel and is ejected. Once the shell is ejected, the barrel goes the remaining distance forward, the shell riser raises the next shell into position, and the bolt is then released to chamber the new round.

Does that clear it up? It can be a bit confusing, the auto 5 is very unique in the way it operates.

My point was that if it was jet force from the expanding gasses after the projectile has left the barrel, when explain why the auto 5's bolt is nearly all the way to the rear before the shot leaves the barrel. Thus reinforcing what everyone but the troll already knows; it's recoil forces, not "jet" forces.

What is truly bizarre, is the number of people who actually want it known that they are lawyers!

Dan

Every firearm begins reacting to the forward movement of the projectile immediately, with that acceleration. When the projectile leaves the muzzle, there is also the component of a jet force of the gasses exiting the muzzle at a much higher speed than the projectile.

In the Browning Auto 5 shotgun, the barrel is not screwed into the receiver, but is held in place by springs. The bolt, and the barrel, begin moving rearward as the shot charge moves forward.
The much greater mass of the barrel and bolt mean they accelerate more slowly than the shot charge, and have only moved part of their way to the rear as the shot leaves the muzzle. The barrel stops and the bolt continues rearward on its inertia plus the jet force, extracting the case and ejecting it.

The A-5 has a set of friction rings which can be adjusted for various power loads, in order to tune its extraction and ejection, and prevent slamming the bolt too hard into the hammer.

So the jet force doesn't cycle the slide on Glock 20 anymore? It did in a thread in the past.



Well, considering the date of the post, I'd say he called a day or two prior, since that's when you claimed you had the gun. I imagine the phone number is pretty easy to get, Winchester customer service isn't too private of a number.

Here's the stuff right from the web: "Product Information: If your question hasn't been answered in the Frequently Asked Questions and it is a question about manuals, catalogs, & products please call our Consumer Department directly at: 800.333.3288 or 801.876.2711 & for Parts & Service call: 800.322.4626 " I'm sure VAnimrod wouldn't mind you asking him for the information and the person he spoke to, he'd be glad to divulge the info to you.

Really, it's a simple prospect of proving EVERYONE on here wrong. All you had to was post a picture of the Model 70 you claim to have. Clearly, you can't do that, so you pretend like everyone else's statements are based on false pretenses. You just keep digging yourself deeper, and deeper, and deeper.

Still pushing the jet force. Only jet force I know of is the hot gas escaping you.
Must have took you all day to google up how a Auto 5 works, since this challenge was levied sometime earlier.

Remember, the Google-Fu is strong with this one.

And don't get me mixed up with him either, just call him Liar24, everybody will for sure know who you are talking about the,

Les you are hoot!!!

Lee,

Congratulations for growing a pair and showing up for the debate. You stil didn't answer any of the 4 questions. Oh, you tried to answer number one, but the pathetic part is; you blew it after I spoon fed you all the answers in my post to djs.

Even after describing in detail how the auto 5 works, you still got it wrong. I have 5 auto 5's in my collection right now, so I have a few examples to choose from (Remington, Browning versions in 12 & 20 ga). And here's the best part, ANYONE on the forum who owns an A5 can check to see if I'm FOS. (someone please try this and back me up here)

Take an unloaded A-5 or Remington model 11. With the bolt closed, butt on the floor, barrel pointed toward ceiling. Push down on the barrel until you hear a click. That click is the bolt unlocking from the barrel. Please note at which point that barrel unlocked from the bolt and let the other forum members know. (let me guess, the bolt is ALL THE WAY TO THE REAR?).

But Lee will say that it unlocks earlier, and if you're pushing on the barrel, you can't "feel" it. Now take a 1/2" dowel that's at least 3" longer than your barrel. Keep your finger off the barrel, because it's going to snap forward with some impressive force. Now push on the dowel, which is pressing from the bolt face only. Again, tell me at which point the barrel flys forward.

The barrel travels along with the bolt ALL THE WAY TO THE REAR; it's a LONG RECOIL ACTION. See, Mr. Engineer doesn't know the first thing about what he's talking about. Lay down your ego, go back and read my post to djs. Now do what you do best; Google the hell out of the subject and read up.

Okay, you blew that one; but you're still convinced it was your "jet" theory.

On to number two: Why is it that black powder shells work exactly the same as smokeless when the pressure is nearly half as much as smokeless? Half the pressure means half the "jet" force. Yet, the bolt and barrel of the auto 5 come back with as much, or even more force. Why is that? It's because the RECOIL force is the same, or greater than it is with smokeless powder. (with any equivalent load, black powder will always produce more recoil - I'm wondering if the engineer even knows the answer as to why that is)

Next one Mr. Genius Engineer: Why is it that in over 100 years of recoil operated firearms, you seem to be the first one to mention such a thing as "jet" force operation? Come on, if such a thing exists, there HAS to exist some credible work in print. You telling me that everyone has been wrong for over a century and NO ONE but Super-Lee24 has caught it?

Lee - I have you on ignore because you are a classic troll, and I fell for it. But I honored your showing up for the debate after someone else pointed out to me that you finally showed up, because it was I who asked you to the debate. I suspect you only showed for the debate after you thought you were safely on ignore. Well, I got a phone call, and took you off long enoughto see with my own eyes.

If you want to continue a DEBATE, I'll be happy to do so. My bet is, you'll slither away like you have so many times in the past, so I'll put you back on ignore.

Dood, you blew it after I gave you the answer...I can't even say nice try. You're no engineer, that's for sure.

Yes, but that's because it's The Dark Side of Google-Fu.

Google Fu?
What's it take for a black belt?

No T LEE, I don't mean you. I apoligize to anyone who thinks I meant them (except for Lee24).

Why do people still pile on this guy? Yeah yeah I know...its fun. And its only the internet. Plus Spring has not yet sprung in many parts of the US. Cabin fever. Yes, but, there's sooo many recipes for lovely dishes out there to be discovered. My newest- Buttermilk pie, yum! It will be part of the Easter fare this year. Just had to try it first to make sure it was good enough for the gang.

Kevin's right on the A5 the barrel never stops until the whole assembly bolt and barrel hit the rear of the action, that's when the bolt stays back and the barrel goes forward.

You can actually load a round this way, put one in the mag and (with the barrel pointing away from you) push the barrel down inside the action hard. She'll cycle if it bottoms out.

I have had many a A5 -

Spot