Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Van Zwoll & 30-30 on elk

Nailed a 6x6 bull at 213 lasered yards with my Marlin .45-70. The bull stood stock still for a couple seconds and just as I was getting rready to shoot again he tipped over.

The .45-70 is a completely different animal than the .30-30, however. My 350g North Fork load still has 1579fps and 1936fpe at 200 yards. contrast that to my 170g Partition RN load for my .30-30 with 1635fps and 1009fpe at 200 yards.

As I said before, I'd probably take a 200 yard shot at elk with my .30-30. But it is zeroed for slightly over that range, scoped, and I practice at that range and greater. And I'd wait for a good broadside shot.

Wow! I'm not the only one who thinks a .30-30 will work effectively on elk. I remember a few years ago I posted on another forum my desire to do a cow hunt with a Model 94 in .30-30 with 170 grain bullets. I stated that I felt if I found any elk inside of 150 yards I wouldn't hesitate to drop the hammer. I sure some keyboards were wet from the spittle coming from the mouths of those who thought I was being not only unethical but plain ignorant and stupid in my rifle and cartridge choice.

I�m very happy to see that I�m not alone in my thinking. Shortly after posting that I had to part with my beloved M94 Win, to finance a hunting trip. However I�m waiting on another that will arrive this week at my local transfer FFL. The rifle needs a little TLC but I should have her in hunting shape by this next season. I just might have to give the old Thuty-Thuty the nod this year.

taylorce1,

Exactly! no reason not to feel good about the 30-30. Not to say we need to try and smash all kinds of bone, but a good lung shot would be sweet. I'm looking at a Marlin 336XLR, that rifle looks awesome..

I carry a 30-30 every year for elk, though not exclusively; mostly for the really thick stuff where you smell em before you see em. I really love the handiness of the little carbine and, yes, it kills stuff very dead.

Ain't that some smell?????

Kind of a mixture of licorice and rancid urine. You cannot exactly describe it, but you sure know it.

Stinkin' buggers. And soooo good to eat.

Steve

I don't know, I like Van Zwoll writing and approach to firearms, he's not one for super mags and likes lighter recoiling firearms. I did not read the article but do give him credit for admitting to the loss.

As far as a 30-30 on elk, its been getting it done a helluva lot longer then most "modern" cartridges and again as with any rifle, you must know its limitations. I believe Mr Van Zwoll is aware of those limitations and unfortunately had a bad day. For me personally, if I was to use a 30-30 on an elk or moose, I would load the 170 gr Nosler Partition as fast as I could and keep it within 100 yds, 150 at most but then again if I was using my 338-06, my limitation would keep me within 250 yds which I feel I'm comfortable with.

NO.

Iam in a state of depression now that I cant use my 30-30 on elk anymore guess Iam back to using my 25-35. danny

Danny, yes, you're screwed now. I bet the elk read Van Zwoll's article, and now they've all wisened up.

A couple of years ago, I read the story of how the last Grizzly in Idaho (turn of last century) was killed by a sheep ranch hand, goin after him into the bush with a 30-30. How could it go from "big medicine" to glorified BB gun in a century?

If Van Zwoll lost one, it's because he was doing it, not writing about it or talking about it. It's going to happen, though I bet it'll happen to Wayne a LOT less than to me.... Cougars got to eat, too. JMO, Dutch.

Yep, if you hunt long enough stuff happens. I have hunted with Wayne and he is a good shot and a careful shot, but there are no guarantees in any human endeavor.

And I actually think it takes some courage to admit a bad outcome, particularly when you know you are opening yourself up for criticism and untold numbers of internet potshots. But I think it adds a measure of credibility to his entire body of writing.

+1. The internet hang-jury is always looming in the wings. I've no doubt in Mr. Van Zwoll's abilities. That shot could have been missed with any cartridge. Maybe the Elk started to move in that moment ... could be any number of reasons. Who really cares?

I haven't read the article at all, and don't want to stir up too much. Did Van Zwoll blame the cartridge or his shooting ability? Or was it something that he did many years ago, and just mentioned it in the article?

BTW my M94 Win came in last night, on a quest to find the parts for it to get it back in shooting shape. I still hear a cow hunt calling my name with that rifle!

Now the cat's out of the bag. Boddington started it with his article and now it's en vogue to print such realities. This is just gunwriters trying to make us believe they are not a bunch of supershootin', primer pocket scrubbin', benchrestin' game zappers. We see right thru it though . Maybe Mule Deer could start a 4th book on all the bad shot's on game he has seen and made.

All kidding aside, I like all the tales, good, bad and ugly. More is usually learned from bad experiences IMHO.

We all screw up. That's a fact.

Steve

Hunting is not an exact science, stuff happens. Even if we follow all the rules of ethics and good judgment, anyone one of us can make a plain old bad shot every once in a while. Hopefully, we all do as much as we can to reduce the chances of such things happening. We should always practice more diligently and become as familiar as we can with the capabilities of our hunting rifles. We should limit our shots to ones we are highly confident we can make. If we don't do this and we wound and lose an animal, we should question our judgment and our ethics. Lucky shots have no place in hunting. If for instance, we rely on "luck" to hit a running bull elk at say 200 yards, then that's using bad judgment and questionable ethics. If on the other hand, we've practiced that shot and can make it consistently, then we're golden. I guess it comes down to whether or not we concern yourself with causing an animal undo suffering if we wound it. Has our desire, zeal, or whatever, to get that running bull, caused us to take a shot that is beyond our level of competence? We should always care and consider what happens if we wound an animal. That's what ethics are all about.

I for one am glad to see writers telling us of misses, bad hits and an occasional lost animal. It may help a novice hunter, or even a veteran, to be more aware the next time they pull the trigger on a game animal. I don't know Mr. Van Zwoll personally, but through his writing, I see no reason to question or doubt his hunting ethics, judgment or ability. His use of a 30-30 at 200 yards likely has little to do with the reported outcome with that elk. He probably just made one of those dreaded bad shots.

I more than most. I have never met Wayne but after many years of reading his articles I don't see him sending a "hail mary" shot at an elk. Sh*t just happens to humble us all.

Yep and his first mistake was taking a fine saddle rifle that works moderately well on deer sized game and hunt elk with it.

I knew a good old boy that grew up hunting Alabama whitetail with his trusy .30-30. Guy was a very good hunter and figured out our Roosevelt elk in a hurry. His third bull was shot at 105 yards. It had just swam across a river so every bullet strike made a clearly seen splash when the water blew off of the hair. Five rounds to the boiler room and that bull walked off into very thick brush. They never did recover him. Heavy rain washed away all of the blood and make fresh tracks look like the rest of them in a couple of minutes.

He bought a real elk rifle as soon as he got home.

Why people try to use the least possible weapon is beyond me. My dad told me to use the right tool for the job and if you have as access to as many fine rifles as Von Zwoll his choice of weapons was a appropriate as trying to frame a house with a tack hammer.

I find it hard to believe 5 rounds at 100 yards to the sweet spot with a 30WCF wouldn't kill any size elk as well as any "real" elk cartridge.

I guess some guys can`t hunt with out a 300 Mangler with a $2,000 Swarovski on it.The right gun for you is the one you use.30-30 or 30-06 what ever trips your trigger.