When a fellow lays out the cash to have a rifle built, the ONLY opinion that counts is his own. I love the .338 but I'm having a 338/06 built. I even sometimes hunt Elk with a .308 Which is the right rifle? Which ever I want it to be. My money, my hunt, my choice.
Teeder made some good points. If Jim C ever did read this thread, I can vision him grinning ear to ear. He would probably give it some more thought at bedtime, grin, roll over and go to sleep!
Since some of the engineers here think bringing up big names means something, I'll just add it was Elmer Keith (333OKH) who was impressed with its performance in a period of not so great bullets. Dogzapper and Chub Eastman are also fond of the 338-06 and are well qualified to recommend it.
As for the critters, I doubt many would know the difference between getting whacked with a 338-06 or a 338WM within reasonable shooting distances.
When a fellow lays out the cash to have a rifle built, the ONLY opinion that counts is his own. I love the .338 but I'm having a 338/06 built. I even sometimes hunt Elk with a .308 Which is the right rifle? Which ever I want it to be. My money, my hunt, my choice.
Right! I will add that it is the animals life! We all owe the critter a duty to use our weaponry well and weaponry that is adequate under the circumstances.
BMT
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
Since some of the engineers here think bringing up big names means something, I'll just add it was Elmer Keith (333OKH) who was impressed with its performance in a period of not so great bullets. Dogzapper and Chub Eastman are also fond of the 338-06 and are well qualified to recommend it. MtnHtr
As a matter of fact, Elmer and I corresponded quite a bit when I was planning to build my first .338-'06 (article in Handloader #109, May-June 1984). Elmer thought the idea of taking his original .333 OKH and adapting it to modern .338" bullets was a terrific one.
He, of course, was all in favor of using the 300-grain Winchester Power Point or the 275-grain Speer. I tried them and eventually settled on much lighter bullets. Believe it or not, I actually had a 210 Partition totally penetrate a large cow elk - from the chest to the butt (the exit was right beside the bunghole). I grew to love the 200-grain Winchester Power Point @2770 fps; never shot twice and all bear, deer and elk went down pronto.
When I told Elmer Keith about the kills, he said confided to me that "Bullets had advanced a bit since his guiding days and that I might be on the right track." I took this as a great admission from this fine, fine man.
When I sent Elmer a photo and running account of a large black bear I killed near the Middle Fork of the John Day, he was impressed. The bear squared just seven feet, weighed 397 pounds (hanging carcass) and was twenty-six years old. He wrote back that the bear was "as good a black as he'd seen and that I was on the right track."
After I had a lot of meat on the ground with the .338-'06, I decided to share the experience with others. I'd never written an article before, but I thought I'd give it a try. I sent the article to Handloader and soon had a call from Ken Howell. Ken thought it was great and wanted more. That was the start of my writing efforts that continue to this day (and will end soon).
When the .338-'06 article was being edited by Ken Howell at Wolfe Publishing, Howell mentioned it to Chub Eastman. Chub, who was at the time the Sales Manager at Leupold, had been a student of Ken's at Montana State University (I think).
Anyway, one day in early 1984, I got a call at my jewelry store from a guy who identified himself as Chub Eastman from Leupold. We met for lunch the following day, for the express reason of discussing the .338-'06. I gave Chub a copy of the article manuscript and he became enchanted with the cartridge. Over the next decade or so, I suppose that Chub has had a dozen or more custom rifles built in .338-'06. And I'd be willing to bet that he's probably killed more critters with the cartridge than any man.
I've always had a soft spot in my heart for the .338-'06. It doesn't recoil as much as the .338 WinMag, shoots nearly as flat and fully the .338 equivelent when it comes to killing elk-sized critters.
Even better, it was because of the .338-'06 that I met my life-long brother Chub Eastman.
Some would find it interesting that I don't hunt with the .338-'06 any more. I switched to the .280 Ackley about 1991 and find it to be all the cartridge I need for just about anything I'm likely to kill. Hey, it works on deer, elk, mooses and, by golly, Asian water buffalo.
I find it strange that JC would champion the .280 Ackley. I guess it shows that he has been paying attention. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Steve
"God Loves Each Of Us As If There Were Only One Of Us" Saint Augustine of Hippo - AD 397
I have that early article of yours (along with others) and have read it several times over the years. It is one of my favorite articles by you even though I have never messed with the 338/06 (I do have a 338WM) and I have always liked what Chub had to say (he's a big 7-08 fan too). Good reads for sure! Thanks!
I have that early article of yours (along with others) and have read it several times over the years. It is one of my favorite articles by you even though I have never messed with the 338/06 (I do have a 338WM) and I have always liked what Chub had to say (he's a big 7-08 fan too). Good reads for sure! Thanks!
MtnHtr
MtnHtr,
It's an amazing thing, the written word. The .338-'06 article was published fully twenty years ago, yet I still get letters, phone calls and e-mails from it.
Chub is a wonderful man. We are brothers who have shared many campfires and many frigid nights in the bush. A friend that special comes along only once in a lifetime, if you're lucky. I've been lucky.
Chub is perhaps the finest rifle-shot I've ever seen in the field. Marine sniper and Corps to the core. Currently, he is fooling with 6.5s and 9.3s. God knows why, because any rifle is magic in his hands.
Yeah, Chub's my buddy and I'm glad he had a blast from my inspiration with the .338-'06. He still uses the cartridge some. He used it with the 200-grain Ballistic to zap a bunch of Afrikan critters a couple of years ago. Killed something like twenty beasties, obviously one-shot kills, and about the only thing that would "capture the bullet" was a hard double-shoulder hit on large zebra stallions. He is still in love with the .338-'06. And so am I.
Glad you liked my words, my friend. Believe it or not, that meands a lot to me.
When the .338-'06 article was being edited by Ken Howell at Wolfe Publishing, Howell mentioned it to Chub Eastman. Chub, who was at the time the Sales Manager at Leupold, had been a student of Ken's at Montana State University (I think).
Since I don't give a sick gnat's fart for why my friend Jim Carmichel doesn't like the .338-06, I didn't unwind this thread until I saw that my young friend Dogzapper had posted comments. I knew that whatever he said here about the .338-06 would be worth taking to the bank -- and having designed two improved versions of the .338-06, I wanted to see what he said here about the plain-vanilla version.
He did make one tiny error that honesty compels me to correct. Old friend Chub Eastman was never my student, and I never taught at the University. When I taught writing at Mission Mountain College (which no longer exists) in Polson, Montana (1968-1969), Chub owned the local gun store, and our friendship began then.
(Just setting the record straight, FWIW. Carry on!)
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
All that's great, but the truth remains that there is absolutely nothing that the .338-06 will do (or improved versions of same), that cannot be accomplished more effectively with a .338 Win. Mag., and it's simply not as versatile, nor is it as practical logistically.
Yeah, the ol' .338 Winchester uses more powder, so it's theoretically less efficient, and it kicks a bit more, but so what? Powder consumption is a nickle & dime consideration anyway (if you can afford to hunt, you can afford the powder!), and I don't see anything "efficient" about burning powder to blow-out cases, as with improved versions of ANYTHING.
As far as the .338 Win. Mag.'s greater recoil, well I guess that's a judgement call on the part of the individual shooter. I have found that a well-designed stock, a can-do attitude, and plenty of practice allows most cartridges based on the .375 H&H case to be quite shootable, and in the real world the disadvantages of the belted case are more theoretical than practical.
Besides, the .338 Win. Mag. is AVAILABLE in terms of ammunition, and this is a very solid point in its favor, especially if you hunt far from home, and I speak from experience on this point. Never underestimate the value of standard factory cartridges in terms of logistics, and as far as I'm concerned the worst kind of foolishness is to create your own logistical fiasco for the sake of a theory--and that goes for cartridges or anything else.
I load my own .338 Win. Mag. (24" Kreiger bbl.) with 250 gr. Nosler Partitions to 2735 fps. in Winchester cases with Reloader 19 plus Federal 215M primers, and there is nothing you can do to create a .338 cartridge on the .30-06 case that will match that level of performance. And that load is good for just about anything, and is much like an enlarged version of the .30-06 loaded nearly to the top with 180s. I'll take it to RSA this year, Tanzania next year, and Alaska and Zambia the year after that, plus elk and moose hunts in between. Versatile load? Yes. More so than the .338-06...........
AD
"The placing of the bullet is everything. The most powerful weapon made will not make up for lack of skill in marksmanship."
When the .338-'06 article was being edited by Ken Howell at Wolfe Publishing, Howell mentioned it to Chub Eastman. Chub, who was at the time the Sales Manager at Leupold, had been a student of Ken's at Montana State University (I think).
Since I don't give a sick gnat's fart for why my friend Jim Carmichel doesn't like the .338-06, I didn't unwind this thread until I saw that my young friend Dogzapper had posted comments. I knew that whatever he said here about the .338-06 would be worth taking to the bank -- and having designed two improved versions of the .338-06, I wanted to see what he said here about the plain-vanilla version.
He did make one tiny error that honesty compels me to correct. Old friend Chub Eastman was never my student, and I never taught at the University. When I taught writing at Mission Mountain College (which no longer exists) in Polson, Montana (1968-1969), Chub owned the local gun store, and our friendship began then.
(Just setting the record straight, FWIW. Carry on!)
Friend Ken,
Thanks for correcting the timeline and relationship. Chub has mentioned (many times) that you were his mentor, his rabbi, in writing and a very cherished friend. He also said that you taught college at the time. I assumed (a writer should NEVER do that) that he was your student and that the teacher/student relationship launched your friendship. Thanks Ken.
Also, thanks for your gentle editorship at Wolfe.
Your buddy Steve
"God Loves Each Of Us As If There Were Only One Of Us" Saint Augustine of Hippo - AD 397
As I've been sitting here, virtually bound to my *&^%$#@! wheel chair, I've been alternately titillated and tormented by the impossible prospect of hunting elk or bear with you and Chub someday -- and my new super, double-improved ".338-06," the .340 Howell.
Oh, how sweet that'd be! So the next time you two are out together, pop a cork for me and enjoy the hunt enough for all three of us. (Don't bother to ask -- of course I want to see photos from your "Ken Howell" hunt!)
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
As I've been sitting here, virtually bound to my *&^%$#@! wheel chair, I've been alternately titillated and tormented by the impossible prospect of hunting elk or bear with you and Chub someday -- and my new super, double-improved ".338-06," the .340 Howell.
Oh, how sweet that'd be! So the next time you two are out together, pop a cork for me and enjoy the hunt enough for all three of us. (Don't bother to ask -- of course I want to see photos from your "Ken Howell" hunt!)
and my new super, double-improved ".338-06," the .340 Howell.
Is this something you can discuss?
Sure I can! (a) It's mine, and (b) I know all there is to know about it (which ain't much, yet <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />).
I'll attach the dimensioned case drawing and (with a second post, right away) a split-image drawing comparing my .340 with the excellent "plain vanilla".338-06.
Your 'smith can get the reamers from Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool & Gauge (1-541-826-5808). Have him specify the authentic Ken Howell dimensions. I plan to donate my rougher, finisher, and size-die reamers and the go and no-go gauges to Redding's custom-die shop when Charlie Sisk has chambered and fitted my barrel.
I plan to use only one bullet in mine -- the new Nosler 225-grain AccuBond. Tuning the load will consist of tests with different primers, powders, and charge weights -- not with every maybe-good .338 bullet under the sun. This rifle will be one of two that I'll describe in detail in a book that I'm tentatively calling One-Bullet Rifles.
You can get an idea of the performance to expect by looking at the (unauthorized) modified form of my .340 at AHR's web site. (That version has less case capacity than my original design, and only AHR has the brass and the dies for that smaller version. I'm buying 200 of the cases and will have to fire-form 'em with inert filler to bring 'em up to full capacity.)
You can form cases from .30-06 or .35 Whelen brass if you don't mind having a neck shorter than the specified 0.375 inch. (The '06 and Whelen are 2.494 inches long. My .340 is 2.600 inches long, so the neck on a .340 Howell case formed from an '06 or Whelen would be 0.269 inch long.)
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
