Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game The questionable long shot

One of the things I've grown away from over the years is the real need, most of the time, to take a long shot at a big game animal. I've done quite a bit of hunting in very open country for deer, elk, Pronghorn, and what not. The more I do this, the less it is necessary to shoot much over 300 yds. is what I've noticed. The other is that once past 300 yds. all sorts of things come into play that affect the shot. Not just the difficulty of holding the rifle steady, but the problems as to just how far out he is and, above all, what sort of wind call I need to make. The fancy laser range finders are wonderful things. Coupled with turrets or an accurate ranging reticle, they do make those relaxed, windless shots easy. The trouble I've noticed is that it's often much harder to hold that thing steady when I'm excited, and the darn wind is always blowing to some degree in the mountains.
We often hear that "there was no way to get closer." Really ? I thought so once myself. But I've learned a few things about that.
One is that if he's seen you, and he can, sometimes even at 1/2 mile or more, you've got no chance to get closer. The minute he sees what you are up to, he's gone. Disappear from sight, and the next time you look for him, he's moved. Often quite a ways. Ever try to dig out and use that range finder only to have him start moving before you are ready ? I've found that simple duplex style reticle can be very useful for those quicker, longer shots, but only up to a point. Like 300, maybe 350 yds.
But if he isn't aware of you, I've been really surprised how close I can get to them, even with nothing taller than my knee for cover. The trick is to stay low and move slowly. If his head snaps up in your direction, or he turns his head sideways to look at you, stop.
I've crawled a fair amount on my belly to do this. Very tough on the body. But it does work. I crawled to within 30 yds of a fedding buck once in open short grass. I've also smashed the inside of my knee pretty badly crawling up on bucks too. What works better for me is a bent over, slow duck walk. Pack and all. I've done this with older, sharp eyed Pronghorn bucks. I've done it on all sorts of deer. I've done it to sharp eyed, older cow elk.
With the elk and Pronghorn, I've been able to get within 300 yds on several occasions. The trick is they must not have a chance to recognize you. Even if they catch you upright, hold still until they relax. Then get down near the ground very slowly. Until you try this, you won't know how well this can work. I've been surprised enough to have faith in it.
A few other things I've noticed. In really open country, spend lots of time very slowly cresting a ridge. Look alot. I often literally still hunt to the top and over it. I've often found small herds of elk right there. Just at or below the crest. It might be a good idea to drop down as you go over the top. Harder for them to see and recognize you.
The other thing I've noticed is that if they do recognize you, very few quality animals will hold still so you can shoot at them at 500-600 yds. Maybe this isn't common in some of the really remote areas. But I've found only a few half way decent Pronghorn, for instance, that will stand around for more than 10 secs. at 500 yds. All the larger ones won't hold still for any lenth of time at almost twice that distance.
Another good trick is to learn to use binoculars well enough to see them first. In fact, that's one of the best tricks I know to get something really nice.
Another is to hunt with the low sun behind you or as close to that as you can make it. Stay in the shadows, even if that means being cold. Again, I've spotted alot of stuff above me, lit up by the early morning sun that had no idea I was around. Why ? Because I was a distance off and below them in the shadows.
I don't know just what your experience has been, but, for me, the toughest shots were the ones were the animal was in full flight and ducking through cover, not those long 500 yd. class shots. That, to my mind, calls for a rifle that will do this kind of shot best. Which is not something setup with an attached bipod for those long shots that don't really conme that often.
Thoughts ? E

Wind is a bitch.

I passed on pretty good pronghorn last fall because of it. He was bedded around 370 yards away with a 10-20 mph crosswind blowing(I can't judge wind speed very well). Belly crawled up to 'em and was setup prone with a Harris/300WSM. A couple of does had me pegged and finally they had enough, jumped up and the herd boogied out. Oh, well.

I was shooting the other day at 400 and was getting around 9" of drift in a pretty tame breeze.
Glad I didn't pop one off at the goat.

Sam you just gotta get those dotz on the sideways crosshair an you'll be good to go.

The lunker Z has 'em but then I'd need to get a wind meter....(grin)

I read somewhere that your allowed a sighter shot.

turrets and a drop and windage chart taped to the stock of your rifle. reading the wind comes with pratice and a wind gauge sure comes in handy but the wind can be differant from point a to point b

"Never trust any man until you've seen him shoot at something dangerous or that he wants really badly at fifty yards or under."

Yep they will allow one to make long shots in windy condition









Practice and the ballistic cards as well as the Kestrell 3500 pocket weather station allowed me to take the Doe at 777 yards with one shot in a 10 MPH quartering wind with a 180 grain TSX fired out of my 300 win

That is nuts JWP!


How many practice rounds did it take to really become confident in that system?

300 yds. is the longest killing shot I ever made. It was a mule deer with a .257 Rob. That's as long shot as I want to try and probably not that far now days. I'm finding that the older I get, the closer I want to be. And it's kinda fun trying to stalk up close.

well you need a rifle that will atleast hold 1/2 moa and then be able to shoot it that well. i shoot my 300 wm and 300 rum 2-3 hundred rounds each a yr

E

First we'll agree to differ here.

Your toughest shots are 50 yards and hauling it through thick stuff = for me, now way in heck am I going to risk that shot. For me its not ethical. Now maybe in the open sure, but I'm not a good running shot and I KNOW that. I opt to use my other skills.

The choice of skills shouldn't have to constantly be an argument. IE you shoot a rifle and therefore are a slob as you dont' choose a slingshot and stalking... and on and on....

Bottom line here to me, if you make a good decision that ends up in not taking a shot or a clean kill, regardless of the range or weapon, I'm good with that and thats my goal.

Being able to stalk takes practice. Being able to shoot long takes practice. I've crawled up on belly with a bow on game within 20-25 yards a number of times. No closer though. But I got tired of close bow shots and such, and as a competitive mid range shooter I do all my practice on longer shots, learnign to read teh wind, in matches where the first shot counts, no sighters etc..... to where I can place my first shot with iron sights at 600 yards with an AR15, about 95% of the time within 4-5 inches or less of center.

Point here is its what YOU want to perfect. And that doesn't bother me. You and I pick. 100 yard shots with iron sights handgun. Get after it. Stalk em close and take150 or less yard shot wiht a rifle. Good. Can't get any closer very easily and simply decide to use your shooting skills vs taking a chance on your stalking skills- get after it.

I will say that in about any wind, a 300 yard shot is gravy generally but you have to pay attention to wind drift, its easy to get into 3-4 moa wind that will drift you up to 12 inches or so at that distance. But the further out you get you either better be good and practiced with the right gear(hmm, same would apply to close stalking IMHO) or lucky, and I dont' do lucky. I pass if I'm not 200% sure. The 200 % sure is IMHO the ONLY thing to worry or waste time discussing. I dont' care what you choose to use or do as long as its legal, and you are happy with it.

Even if you want to hunt over corn(that should get the kettle boiling)

They all take practice, choose what you want to do, do it legally and all is good. They all eat the same really when it boils down to it. And thats a huge reason that I hunt, I like to eat.

Jeff

The closer, the better. I laugh at shows where the guy with a rifle can't get within 300-400 yards of the Dall Sheep, yet on another show, a guy with a recurve stalks up the mountain and shoots one bedded down...

Granted, it takes a lot of skill and practice to shoot far out, especially with a crosswind. I haven't tried my hand at it yet, though I'd like to. Until I get a scope with turrets, I'll keep my shooting pretty close.

jwp those are great tools, they help me take this one at 892 yards.

nice allen mag

Jeff, that's a good philosophy.


Practice enough to know your limitations.

It takes practice that is a given, but it also takes the proper rifle and scope. As you can plainly see in the picture posted by Joe Cool he has a Nightforce NXS scope on his 270 Allen Mag that he used to take a very nice buck with at 982 yards. Most on the Campfire refuse to even think about using the proper optics and rifles for long range work. The rifles along with the proper scopes are heavier than many are willing to use. The scope and it's turrets ability to track perfectly each and every time is paramount. Adding Stoney Point turrets to a regular scope is not the best road to success IMHO

At these types of ranges the very high BC bullets shine. I believe that Joe Cool used the 190 grain VLD Wildcat bullet from his 270 Allen mag if memory serves. If not then it was the 169.5 grain. These are very high BC bullets that are not as affected by wind as much as the lighter faster bullet are. Also I want to be in a prone position with a bi-pod and a rear bag under the stock for a rock solid steady shooting position in order to take a shot at long range on a game animal. If I am in a steady prone position then I feel very confident that I am going to kill that animal on the first shot

Before this gets rancorous, and it will, a comment or few.

Eremicus is right of course on not needing to take long shots. Bowhunters take all of the game we take with long shots, and do it in all areas of the country.

And PDS is right when he says, "Point here is its what YOU want to perfect."

People take long shots because we want to.

Then we argue for it, deny and minimize the odds of misses with our superior gear and ability, and justify it more than I've heard anyone do with other styles of hunting. I suspect that is because for most long rangers, (and I do believe PDS is an exception, among others) somewhere inside we sense that we are pushing the limits of personal ethics and responsibility. It is human nature to justify and seek approval from others for behavior that gives us inner doubts. Otherwise, who cares what anybody thinks about my style of hunting?

Nice antelope and buck. Those were GOOD shots.

What year did you start using a RF?

2003 I believe and they are invaluable if one intends to shoot at long range. LRF takes the guess work out of the equation. I learned hwo to hunt and shoot long range from some great guy's here http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/