Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Where did we go wrong?

Well there are things this country does collectivly that I agree with/ see as being uniquely American - yet there are people in this country that I do not, and will not agree with and generaly do not find at all in the general meaning of "being an American"



I myself can not and will not ever agree with those in our society who are pro-abortion, anti religion, anti-gun, and anti- family. Not saying I can't be their neighbor and will treat them with respect - just can not agree with them. And that is a difference I have found to be out there - those of us on the right seem to be more respectful of disenting positions- we are not trying to say you HAVE to pray in school - just alow those that want to to be able to - yet those that just can not let it be say NO you absolutly can not as it may offend my 3 yr old.



I do not agree with those who say marriage can be between 2 men or 2 women, say we can not discipline our kids, say a simple prayer before a football game is infringing on their rights not to, or people who say that as Americans we need to be answerable to other countries as to our national defense.





I swell up with great pride when I see this country reach its hands out to those in need. I can not think of one instance where this country has said no to another in dealing with a natural or man made disaster. We help everbody- floods in China, famine in USSR (even tho we were enemys) these things make me proud of our Country - Ironicaly displaying those Judeo-Christian beliefs (do unto others...) that so many inside this country are trying to say should not be part of how we do business.



What I see is a real (and this is so cliche) culture war going on in this country - finally coming to a head. I see the changes in the schools as I graduated HS in 95 and then go back to those schools in just a 10 yr span to see the differences in attitude from the students/teachers and the way it is sliding farther and farther into the things I do not believe in.



I joined the military late in life - I was 25 - I had life expirence before that and to see the attitudes of new recruits coming in - fresh out of HS all believing that the govt, military, and the world OWES something to them just because the (OMG) had to do things they do not like or weren't born into the life of someone like Paris Hilton, makes me sick.



They have no concept of responsability, world affairs or world history (old adage those that don't learn from it...) I had an Army e-5 (person of responsability- supposed to mold young soldiers and teach them) not know what the significance of Dunkirk was, she also had no idea that Supreme court justices were appointed for life, we fought a war in 1812, no idea the Berlin Airlift ever occured. I am not saying a person has to be the walking History channel but she only saw America -up to this point- as the America shown to her by people who thought America has only done wrong - Korea, Vietnam, bay of pigs, that liberal bs spewed to her in schools.



If my beliefs make me some out of touch- "evil" right winger then so be it - these are beliefs based on my own observances and WHAT makes sense to ME.



My parents were never politicaly active or even active in anything other than

getting us to soccer, hunting, and so forth. Every political leaning and though I have comes from an un-influenced look at life. I made my decisions based on what I see and feel.



Just my expirence and way I think, as others have said "... your mileage may vary..."

i'm an outsider here so i'm hoping i don't get flamed. america has done nothing wrong. the problems mentioned are the problems every where.
America started as a true democracy and is one of the greatest democracies the world has seen. watergate should have been its proudest moment because it proved NO ONE is above the law. the world is changing so rapidly it must seem like there are wolves at the door. but when i see maybe 48 hours of news devoted to a poor american who gets beheaded, and day after day coverage of crimes done in a U.S. military prison, i often wonder what the agenda of the "free" press is. just my thoughts.

I think we are mostly on the same page so far, I was thinking that the beginning of the decline came around 1920, when the women were saddled with the responsibilty of voting. I also wonder what the economy would be like if most of the women were still committing their time to homemaking.

and child rearing..

I would say when people became afraid of saying what is right and wrong, for fear of being called judgemental. When these [bleep] pro choice [bleep] want to piss and moan about killing bambi, but don't blink an eye about killing babies. When we started operating on feelings and not thoughts. Steve

Our Society is becoming sooooo soft,that most have lost touch with reality.

One cain't put a Bandaid on everything and poopoo his way through life. My goal is to prepare my children for the worst,as everything shy of that will be a breeze. Meaning,I aim for them to squarely pull their own weight in this Life and do for themselves. Sadly,that is a somewhat novel approach in today's World,as per my observations.

The World is an unkind place,but too many have become accustomed to being coddled and want handouts provided by the minority who foot the bill(do the work). When you have more shirkers,than providers,things come unhinged quickly.

It seems all want a free lunch and to reside in a World that simply doesn't(can't) exist.

Some need a good shot betwixt the blinkers,to "see the light" and it's a shame that more aren't accomodated.............

A casual perusal of the history of the Mass Bay Colony, the formation of New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, the Virginia Constitution, etc., shows that our forefathers were first and foremost, God fearing, and specifically mostly Protestant.

The continuing influence of religion is shown in the first Great Awakening that made the Revolution possible by breaking down the petty bickers of the different sects, the Second Great Awakening that was part of the impetus that destroyed slavery, and then the 1900's holiness revival that resulted in American missionaries all around the world and prohibition here at home.

So I contend that the heart and soul of the culture of America in here golden years was a healthy church. The Puritan work ethic, respect for parents and elders, Godly shame and outrage over sexual immorality, honesty in business, justice in government, etc.

I maintain that our down fall began in the US seminaries back at the turn of the last century when the ministers studied German Higher Criticism, came to reject holy writ, and started to preach sentimental hoo ha. Then the folks came to regard the ministry with at best a polite patronizing attitude or outright mockery and rejection. We lost the fear of God as a people when we lost respect for his word. There has always been a hardened unbelieving secular section of America, but the heart and soul of all that was good came from the Church.

The clergy at the time of the Revolution was held in high regard, they preached up the fight, laid a philosophical ground work for the righteousness of it all and urged the people on from the strongest motivation possible, an enlightened conscience. They were considered the Black Column. The Brits desecrated Puritan Churches of Boston and said that the revolt would never be put down until they had rooted out "that damn Puritan spirit."

So in any case my point is this- our goodness came from our faith. That is my position.

And- I can stack up quotes from the founding fathers to support my position that would fill a library. George Washington's farewell comes to mind, Linconln's second inaugural, on and on.

To me the turning point was "tune in, turn on, freak out." The notion drugs are ok and don't hurt anyone. Billions of dollars later and many thousand dead, can we not see the lie? That coupled with we are more educated and more able to see the lies put before us by the media and those we elect.

I contend,that if you wanna see a GREAT fight,pit two men of differing Religous beliefs in the ring.

Funny thing is,most Religions opine that violence is to be avoided. Few can practice what they preach and thus the catalyst for History's GREATEST bloodbaths.

'Tis us Heathens,who oughtta be running things,so as to keep things neutral...................(grin)

IMHO, I would say around the late 50's, early 60's. That"s when we really began to allow liberal thinking into our culture and govt.We started to kick God out of our society and it all began to slide down the slippery slope. If a society kicks God out, it better do so expecting Him to kick back someday.
Dave in WV, Dixie Freedom, and teal325 all made great points so I won't use the space to repeat what they said, just that I agree.

Qtip
Soli Deo Gloria!
To God Alone Be The Glory!

I trace it back to the post WWII Dr. Spock fetish many had with raising chilluns in a namby-pamby fashion. Let's blame him for succeeding generations, used to having someone make it all well and quick, for them. Like you said, the world's a nasty place and someone has to deal with the nastiness, rather than whine for someone else to come deal with it for them.

I think a lot of negative trends fed off each other and gathered strength in the 60s, fed by the media hysteria over Watergate and the chance to 86 the hated Nixon, and the rise to power of the "soft sciences"---with a study to explain why everything Judeo/Euro/American society had believed for 3000 years was racist, sexist, homophobic, discriminatory and hazardous to the self esteem of some person or species. And then society actually began to respond and act on this academic agenda and say, "Well this Birkenstock wearing socialist says I shouldn"t________ (fill in the blank) any more so I guess I better quit, and I better make everybody else quits too." Liberal judges decided these new found truths had actually been hiding in the Constitution all along (who knew?) and made them law, with the blessing of the learned media. And since then it's just been rolling downhill.

The cover up of the Kennedy assasination,followed closely by the manipulating of the Vietnam war by the Gov't and the news media.That started us on a slide and I'm thinking most of the events that occured after that are symptoms of a society in moral decline not root causes.
The obstacle to regaining our moral compass is the news media.It thrives on confrontation so there will always be a voice to disagree with anything,no matter how fundamentally right the original proposition is.
The Kennedy cover up showed the politicians that they could get by with any lie they want to tell.Vietnam showed the TV news guys that they could actually make policy rather than advocate or report it.
It's not apt to change soon.

Most of our social problems are rooted in FDR's "New Deal" (1933) and "Second New Deal" (1935).

No matter how good the intentions or grand the scheme, public welfare and work programs have been bastardized into systems whereas an ever-growing segment of our population contributes nothing to themselves or society.

To these people being an American means they are guaranteed a certain station in life and never have to lift a finger to obtain it. They are owed housing, food, healthcare, and education, and they don't even have to show up to collect. If we choose not to pay them off, their resentment and bitterness fuels crime and hate.

It's all about getting something for nothing.

I noticed during World War Two that kids -- especially boys -- whose fathers were away fighting the war were awfully hard for their mothers to handle. As some of the fathers came home again, many of them had had their fill of discipline and as a result, did not discipline their kids. And there were many broken families, with no fathers.

I think that a lot of the cultural and moral decay that has reached such depths today had at least some of its beginnings then and in those situational causes. In a simple phrase, the decline of discipline, especially the decline of self-discipline, as self-gratification has become both an obsession and a standard.

Rights have no responbilities except others' responsibility to guarantee us our rights to do, think, say, and have whatever we want.

Neighbors of ours came to Montana from "Back East" years ago, in part to raise their boys on a farm instead of in the city. One year, they raised chickens for the boys' chores. (With three to six university degrees between the two of 'em, and two professions, the parents didn't need the egg money.)

Everything they did had to be done "by the book," but they didn't have all the books. When the time came to kill and freeze the chickens, they'd heard that pithing the chickens made 'em easier to pluck. But they had no clue how. They also had no clue how to kill and dress the chickens. A brochure from somewhere probably explained pithing, I think, but they found no scholarly documentary how-to guide to the rest of the procedure.)

"Oh, Hell. Just chop their heads off and yank their guts out" -- a neignboring ranch mama's advice when they asked her how to prepare 'em for the freezer -- was too crude to consider.

So they cut off the wings and legs and threw the rest away.

I also think that part of the change has been peoples reluctance to think for themselves. I think that some people have found out that if they don't think for themself then when it goes down the crapper they can point the finger at others. Well "they" told me it was ok to do it this way. I think this is where we get into the peer preasure problems.

Just another log on the fire burning the classic American way of life to the ground.

As I stated earlier, I believe it started with Lincoln and the war. Then the transition from a mostly agrarian society to a work for wages one with no real roots to the land was the fell swoop. Now with ALL the "liberalism" (see socialism) and PC BS it is just accwlerating to where we are realy noticing. Too late I do believe, much too late, unless we as a society have a real epiphany soon.

T Lee

I am not sure where I read it but I am almost certain I remember this right- the US was 80% farm hands prior to WWII. Is that true?

The family farm was regulated and bought out to almost non existence. A local hog farmer explained how locally they just passed so many regulations that the little guy could never buy all the crap they said they had to have. Kinda how the Brits stole India, taxed the folks off their own land. How far reaching across America that is I don't know...

Yep - T lee that prob would be the "birthdate" if I had to give it one. I was drivin' down to Panama City, Fla once (me and 4 of my friends plus 'bout $600 worth of liquor! Lets just say it was a long week) and there was a guy on the radio talking bout the loss of personal freedoms. Described how he, as a libertarian, had a real problem with Lincoln as he believed Lincoln forced an extremely strong centralized govt down the throat of America- essentialy usurping (sp?) states rights, Was very interresting to a 20 year old looking foreward to a condo on the beach and a blender.