Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Why US Wins Wars?

Our military history is full of amazing victories going way back. Excepting the debate over 1812, it seems we have always won the fist fights and usually against great odds.

How many incidents are there of just a handful of American soldiers defeating or holding off two three four or five times their number? There are so many examples who could count them all?

Why is this?

Is it because by God's grace we are just smarter when it comes to fighting? Is it because we like fighting more than others? Are our military colleges better at teaching tactics and strategy? Better engineers?

Our technology has not always won the day, in Europe the Germans had better near about eveything cept we just had more stuff. At the beginning of the Pacific war the Japs had better planes and better pilots too.

We ain't always as motivated, (maybe) as Patton pointed out, the only thing the American soldier lacked that his enemy had was maniacal fanaticism. And the Japs were fanatics too.

And usually we have turned the tide in desperate fights for the benefit of others! Since that north/south thing we haven't had the barbarians at our doorsteps, (in the continental 48) for a long time. In WW1 the fighting was as viscious or more viscious than anywhere at anytime but we turned the tide. We didn't cut and run and it wasn't even our own soil we were fighting for.

America has always been strong, and good, the greatest nation in the history of the entire world, bar none. Obviously we are in decline. Nonetheless I have been pondering this of late. What is it specifically that has given us so much success? I am beginning to think it is good coaching, (by God's grace of course), ie good smart honorable officers that knew their jobs better and trained harder. I don't know, you all help me out here.

I would say that having a military that really doesn't want to fight in the first place has helped. We have been goaded into the fight and want to just get it over with.

I would also say our finest hours were in WWII. There you had excellent NCO's who were brought up in the boy scouts and hot rod garages in the US. We were allowed to make decisions at the squad level that helped a bunch. The Germans had EXCELLENT NCO's but were hamstrung by their very political officer corps.

While the over all plans weren't the greatest (Market Garder from what I have heard was none to good) the NCO on the ground did more with less to get the guys home. Some have said that the Garand and Patton won the war. From what I have read and talking to vets, Patton looked at the War from a sargeants perspective and just happened to have stars on his shoulder. By that I mean he kind of looked at it like the joe blow NCO and then went about dealing with the problem infront of him.

We allow our Sailors, Marines, Soldiers, and Airmen to think on their own (to a point) and that alows up to be more flexable in combat- flexability combined with a will to win is very formittible (sp?).

Plus just a lot of really great guys on the ground that really care about eachother helps- its amaizing what you will do for a friend!

JMHO

We are more creative, better at thinking on our feet, and more adaptable. A good example is the description given my a German WW II fighter pilot comparing dogfighting Brits and Americans.

He said the Brit was the better pilot. More skilled, more professional. When the Brit was maneuvered into a certain situation, there was only one or things a truly good pilot would do, so the German was ready. However, the Americans were a different story. They were not as good as the Brits. However, when the American pilot was maneuvered into a certain situation, there was no telling what he would do. The American was willing to do "awful things" with his airplane, things a good pilot just wouldn't do, and the German said that made it very hard to fight the American.

We are still that way. The Germans are better engineers than we are, and the Japanese are better at building something precisely to spec. However, nobody even comes close to the American ability to go from zero to a 90% solution quickly against incredible odds.

I think this is because of the kind of people who originally emigrated here and what they had to do to make it here. Ingenuity was not just a nicety, it was a must for survival. We are still very close to our settler days when compared to the Europeans or Japanese. I hope we never lose that trait, but the odds are against that hope.

teal,

I think you hit on an important point, the NCO being the backbone of our military, and argueably the most important link in the 'chain of command.'

But I got the impression you thought those days were over after WWII. I'd have to say that the NCO of today is the highest educated, and most trained (in leadership schools) of any NCO in history. Good officers still leave the people managing to them, and stick to plans and tactics.

I believe the main reason we win, is that God is on our side. Another reason to stick by Isreal too.

I believe Rommel summed it up best:
"War is caos, and the Americans practice caos on a daily basis."

Our shop NCO had this quote posted above his desk at Ft Lewis.
7mm

I don't think they have ended. I would like to think I am a good NCO - Black and white but know when its time to be gray when it comes to my subordinates. I used WWII because it really showed off our guys and is really where alot of our leadership princiles seem to come from.

When I was in basic (granted the WWII was one of the Navy's largest operations so to speak.) it was the WWII situatiuons of petty officersm, chiefs and such really going anbove and beyond.

I talk to the Army guys I work with and its all "the Battle of the Bulge" , D-Day and such - rightly so- the Marines- talk of every time any marine ever got a scratch (pride of service runs rampant <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) Airforce talk of the berlin air life and their roots in the Army air corps.

A good NCO can do more to help an operation than almost anything, a bad NCO can do more to hurt than anything too. Fortunatly we seem to be able to put more good ones out than bad.

I had a class with a Marine Capt. he used to be enlisted. Said when he got to his mortar platoon the plt sgt always expected him to do everything - he was the officer. Well the capt said - NO I am here for tactics YOU are here to get them done. Perfect hands off approach. You let the chiefs be chiefs and do their jobs- things get done.

In many ways we really do have the best educated military the world has ever seen- I have 2 Army e4s on my shift going for their MAster degrees and several other people in the middle of their bachelors. Great crew to a man/woman.

I know my son has been taking college courses because if you want to advance past e-5 you really need to have a degree, and an MBA is better.

Yea the Navy is really big on continuing education. They don't really seems to care what it is as long as you have a plan - they want you to be ok once you get out I guess. Not bad.

Teal
"I would say that having a military that really doesn't want to fight in the first place has helped. We have been goaded into the fight and want to just get it over with."

That thought, err uhhh and Betty Grable, kinda crossed my mind. Get it over with and go home and have fun! During WWII the brits always remarked that the Americans were always smiling and upbeat.

"over paid, over sexed and over here" yep that will do.

"Ingenuity was not just a nicety, it was a must for survival."

You know I have thought of this a time or two. I know that other cultures and countries invent stuff, but by far America has been the engine pulling the train of invention.

I used to live in India with an old British missionary and his Indian wife. He use to say in public speaking, "If you have an idea for an invention, don't bother, just go to America and buy it, they have thought of everything already. Not only can you buy it, you can a cheap knock off imitation too!"

Good point.

I also think it is our respect for our own lives - like patton said bout making the other guy die for his. If I really value my life and dn't see the "glory" in dyin for the sake of dyin I am gonna fight a lot harder to stay alive rather than get into it and say "well they tell me that to die for the caouse is the most noble thing to do so I ll just give er up"

I wonder how much affect our "gun" culture has had on our history. Prior to WWII most folks came from farms, they were already in good shape and could shoot too.

Is there a modern Clauschwitz? You know that guy that wrote that book. Has the "bible" of war been redone recently?

And who was that chinese guy, that wrote that book the art of war or something like that.

I guess what I am asking is what text are they studying at the war college these days.

The Art of War
Sun Tzu

http://classics.mit.edu/Tzu/artwar.html

text on line!

Carl von Clausewitz

http://www.clausewitz.com/CWZHOME/CWZBASE.htm

the text online

http://www.clausewitz.com/CWZHOME/On_War/ONWARTOC.html

WWII can be divided into 2 wars, The war against Germany and The war against Japan.

The war against Germany

We beat Germany because of the following:

1) The majority of the German army was fighting the Russians.

2) We had control of the air and sea.

3) We had more of everything than the Germans.

4) The M1 Grand.

5) The German army was uneven quality. Some units were very well equipt and trained. Infantry divisions used horses and marched on foot.

6) Our army was extremely well equipt and even quality. All of our units were motorized.

7) We were reading the German communications and we had broken and turned all of the German agents in England.

8) Adolf Hitler interfered with the German army and screwed things up.

The war against Japan

1) We read Japaneze communications.

2) US submarines destroyed Japanese ocean commerce.

3) US out produced Japan by an enormouse factor.

4) Japanese mistakes destroyed quality Japanese soldiers, sailors and airmen. They could not replace these men.

5) US weapons improved so they all were better than Japanese weapons.

6) Quality of Japanese weapons deteriorated

Conrad

Conrad,

I've have a different "Top Two" for the allied victory over Germany:

1) The Brits held out. Without a forward staging point for the allied invasion of Europe, without fields for the 8th Airforce, we'd either still be fighting or speaking German.

2) During the early days of the war, we could build ships faster than the U-boats could sink them.

I have oftened wondered; if Hitler hadn't taken on Russia, could we have whooped him? A LOT of Russians died fighting those goose steppers. Dad never would speak evil of the Russians when I was a kid. Wasn't the number kia from Russia in WW2 about 13 million? Or was it 23? We lost more folks in the Civil War...