Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire TALK ABOUT EXCESSIVE GOVERNMENT!

In February, 12-year-old Daniel began displaying some symptoms that his father suspected were related to the use of Ritalin.

"He was losing weight, wasn't sleeping, wasn't eating," Taylor told ABC News affiliate KOAT-TV in New Mexico. "[He] just wasn't Daniel."

So Taylor took Daniel off Ritalin, against his doctor's wishes. And though Taylor noticed Daniel was sleeping better and his appetite had returned, his teachers complained about the return of his disruptive behavior. Daniel seemed unable to sit still and was inattentive. His teachers ultimately learned that he was no longer taking Ritalin.

Taylor is among many parents facing a dilemma over whether to medicate children who suffer from mental disorders. A recent study by Express Scripts Inc., a medical benefits management company, found antidepressant use increased 49 percent among consumers younger than 18 between 1998 and 2002. Preschoolers up to age 5, the study found, were the fastest-growing users of prescription antidepressants. Story

A real doctor would have changed the boys treatment if the side effects of his ADD medicine were causing problems. He could have tried a reduced dose of Ritalin, changed him to a different type of medicine or had the parents feed him in the morning before giving him the medicine. For these reasons I don't believe this story is true.

My children take medicine for ADD and it makes a huge positive difference in their lives.

When I forget to give my son his medicine I have to pick him up early from school because he is disrupting class and his handwriting is terrible. When he gets his medicine he is an A+ student in all subjects. He is in the 2nd grade and reading, at the start of this year, at grade level 5.5. He has read 2 of the 3 Lord of the Ring books and the Hobbit by Tolkien.

My daughter is on the honor role, but she cannot function without her ADD medicine.

The only side effect is that they have a reduced appetite in the afternoon and evening. This is a problem for my daughter and probably responsible for the fact that she is 13 and weighs under 70 lbs. We are taking measures to boost her calorie intake. I would much rather that she have this problem then obesity which is common among children nowadays.

If your child is diagnosed with ADD or ADHD you should not be too concerned about the side affects of the medicines used to treat them. It can make a big improvement in their lives and yours. Your child can be transformed from a failure to a success in school.

Conrad

i feel sorry for any parent that thinks they need to medicate their child to make them a better student. when you were that age did your parents give you a drug to calm you down. i'll bet they didn't. as parents we have to be the major factor in our childrens lives. i was a wild child as my mother would say, but through creative thinking on my parents part and my teachers part i never had to be medicated to go to school. most children who are hyperactive are just bored. it is up to parents and teachers to come together for alternative methods of teaching these hyperactive children. not some doctor who gets a kick back every time he prescribes ritalin. sorry for the rant. just let kids be kids......blake

Yup. My parents understood that I and my brothers were boys--not girls--and they taught us to control ourselves. Nary a drug in sight--they didn't even drink alcohol or coffee. We wound up bleeding a lot, of course, and fighting, and breaking the occasional bone, and chasing the girls around with various oogy creatures; but that's how God designed boys; it helps us learn.

Sure, I imagine that teaching us to control ourselves (during times when control is important) was difficult, and it would have been much easier simply to drug us into wide-eyed semiconsciousness; but we wouldn't have learned anything about real life if we were drugged, and once we came off the drugs our irresponsibility would have been just as bad.

Sometimes I wonder if ADD and ADHD really exist at all, in any objective sense, or whether they're fictional constructs of the psychiatric industry like Obnoxious Personality Disorder, Post-Slavery Stress Syndrome, Repressed Memory Syndrome, and Sweetest Day.

Hey, the stupid parents are to blame, they have been letting them get away with it for several years now. Why bother to parent when you can just zombify the kid and store them at a wharehouse called school. Must be why they are lowering the standards of accomplishments each year. We had dicipline to control us when we were kids, so did mine. I do not believe we meed 10% of the chemicals they try to stuff into CHILDREN these days!

Spot on Sir, spot on!

Barak and TLEE, both of you are correct. my sister started giving her oldest ritalin, my mother father and myself all told her she shouldn't, but some crackpot doctor had her convinced. anyway sarah turned into a complete zombie and was not the same child. thank GOD my sister saw the error in here ways and got her off of that stuff asap. add and adhd are bogus and a copout for parents who are not involved in their childrens life...........end rant, blake

I have ADD or ADHD and I had a very difficult time growing up. Todays children are very lucky that doctors understand ADD now and that treatment of this problem is straight forward.

The medicine my children take has made a positive impact on their lives. They can function in school successfully with the medicine and would be failing without it. Further more the only negative side effect is a reduction in appetite. This is the result that most children with ADD experience.

Why do you:


The medicine works and there are no significant side effects. I can't understand why you think that this is a problem.

A person with ADD has a difficult time managing his focus. If he finds something that is interesting he will hyper-focus on it to the exclusion of everything elese. If he is not interested in something he has a difficult time maintaining his focus on it. Further more, he is very impulsive and acts without thinking.

ADD causes a lot of problems for a child. He has a difficult time making friends. He has a difficult time learning things that he is not interested in. This can prevent him from learning to spell, read, arithmetic, histroy, ... etc. Most children with ADD are very intelligent and would easily learn this stuff if they could manage their focus better.

The medicines prescribed to treat ADD are stimulants like speed. They allow a child with ADD to do a better job of manage his focus. If you watched a class for a week or so you would have pretty good idea which children have untreated ADD. You would not be able to determine which children have ADD and are being treated for it. These children function just like those without ADD.

Now tell me why I should take my children off their ADD medicine ? Is it to make them fail at school ? Is it to prevent them from making friends ? That is what would happen if I had them stop taking their ADD medicine.


I had the same problem as you and i had a difficult time in school. We understand these issues better now than the did while I was growing up and we have treatments that work. Why not use them ?



Boredom is a symptom of ADD and ADHD. These children lack the ability to focus on stuff that does not grab their interest. As a result they easily become bored and fail to learn important stuff like reading, writing, spelling and history. The ADD medicines improve a childs ability to focus if they have ADD.



Doctors do not get kick backs when the prescribe ritalin. This would be a crime. If you have evidence of this then report it to the police.

Doctors who prescribe ritalin and other simulants to treat ADD do it because it works. It is an easy way to help children overcome a problem that makes their lives very difficult. If the doctors misdignose ADD in a child these medicines will not help them and the doctor will discontinue the medicine.

I doubt that you guys have children with ADD. You appear to be relying upon prejudice and emotion. Why don't you ask the parents of children with ADD if the medicine works ? Or ask their doctors ?

Conrad

Of course it's easy. Buying frozen fish at the supermarket is easier than catching your own, too: but it doesn't teach you anything; and should that frozen fish at the supermarket at some point become unavailable for some reason, you're screwed.

You remind me of the Dread Pirate Roberts from The Princess Bride: "Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says different is selling something." In this case, drugs.

I'm not ADD, whatever that really means: I'm out-and-out autistic. Yet my parents managed to teach me how to conduct myself in normal society, because they believed in parenting me rather than drugging me. Now I have a family of my own, a good job, a house, a car, and I lead a more-or-less normal life, without drugs. Why? Because I know how to control myself. Why? Because my parents taught me, even though it was a lot of trouble and cost them much blood, sweat, and tears. Why? Because that's what they thought parents were for.

I was their first child, and none of us even realized that I was autistic until I was accidentally diagnosed as an adult. They simply decided they were ready for the responsibility of raising kids, and they took that responsibility wherever it led them and did whatever it made necessary. Where I come from, that's what parents do.


I have no idea. Our oldest daughter exhibited a number of the characteristics people now claim indicate ADHD, and she got a whole lot worse whenever she ate anything with sugar in it. We kept her just as far away from anyone connected with the psychiatric industry as we could, and put in the hours and the effort it took to teach her to control herself. Now she's drug-free, and working on a master's degree in library science.

If you have decided, for your own reasons, that given your situation you'd rather drug than parent, then that's a decision you have made and for which you must take responsibility. I'm a libertarian: they're your kids, not mine, and I won't presume to tell you how to raise them. But I can't imagine myself making the decision to drug my kids for the sake of convenience.


You can call it that if you like. I prefer to call it a family-oriented culture.


Works how? Makes the kids easier to manage for the parents? Makes the doctor a tidy profit? I'm sure you're right. I hear that selling your soul to the Devil can make you very rich, as well. But I'm not interested in trying that either.

Barak - I'm familiar with the others, but what is "Sweetest Day"? (Was almost afraid to ask...)

-FreeMe

It's a feeble attempt at a joke. It's another fictional invention, but by Hallmark Corporation (officially, IIRC) rather than the psychiatric industry. It's another day when all men are supposed to buy cards, flowers, candy, and jewelry for the significant females in their lives. As far as I know, it actually commemorates nothing but capitalism.

I am 100% with Conrad on this. Managing ADD without the proper dose of medication is like trying to manage diabetes without insulin. Sometimes it can be kept in check with proper diet & exercise, sometimes it just can't.
For those of you that just want to rant without being informed, so be it. For those of you that would like to learn something about it here is one link

http://www.additudemag.com/addabc.asp

If anyone is interested in more info let me know. I didn't start taking Ritilan until I was 46. Getting through college and then grad school about killed me. I can only imagine how much fuller my life would have been with proper treatment early on. 2nd wind

i would like to see actual proof that add or adhd exist. my daughter is of the age where she gets into everything and won't sit still but i can't see myself giving her a drug to calm her down. that is just what children do. and do not mistake add or adhd as a learning disability they are not. they are poor excuses for parenting that is it. my daughter is almost four years old and she is learning to read because i want her to be prepared for school when she is old enough to attend. she can also be very easily distracted but if you keep at it and make it fun for the child it better than giving them drugs period......blake

Thanks for the link. I took a quick look at it, and so far I remain unconvinced. I saw the statements by the consortium of 75 international doctors, as well as the various other swear-on-my-mother's-grave cross-my-heart hope-to-die assertions; but all the ones I saw came from people who would benefit from ADHD being real, and who would be harmed if it were fake. Therefore, they would be motivated to claim it was real whether it was or not. There was also a conspicuous dearth of countervailing experience. If I went to a self-defense site that claimed to be unbiased and saw nothing but praise for the 9x19mm cartridge and scorn for the 45ACP, without anything at all positive about the 45, I would be suspicious too--even if I was a fan of the 9mm.

There a number of people who will tell you how wonderful all sorts of drugs are, from aspirin to LSD, and how hard it would be to live their lives without them; but as someone who has done a fair amount of diligent work on his life and his habits and his ingrained responses and his person, without any help from drugs, to be able to be harmless and even productive in normal society, I am disinclined to suffer whiners gladly.


Really? If you don't get enough Ritalin, you're in danger of convulsions, unconsciousness, coma, and death? That's not what I've heard. (Deliberate hyperbole like this doesn't help your case: it hurts it.)


Sure. If you've got something other than cheerleading, feel free to point me to it. I'm not unsusceptible to argument, just skeptical.


And I'll bet you can stop any time you want, too, right?

You make your decisions, I make mine. For both our sakes, I'm real glad that neither you nor your additudemag.com buddies tried to make my daughter's decisions.

Barak, perhaps the methods used by your parents to help you grow up to be a productive person would help a lot of other people ...but then again what about the rebeliouse and resentful youngester who just can't be controlled? the streets of our nations cities are full of run a way kids many of whom have problems that may be described as ADD. Just because your story is a success story you survived....you had parents who carred and controlled you. There are lots of kids who trully need more help than many parents and professional babysitters can provide.
There is a evil trade off to all this, the kids who need help can't get it in school, with class size around 30 or more one disruptive child takes away from the time the rest of the kids need. Schools are not supposed to day care facilities but they are turning out that way. Teachers have had their ability to disipline stripped from them by the so called sensitive types.
Sure ther are kids who are occasionally disruptive....who amoung us wasn't. but there are also the uncontrolable kids who no matter how hard they try just can't sit still or concentrate. So what do you propose to help these kids....a swift kick in the behind? Might help some kids but the trully ADD ? ADD is real no matter how hard you wish it were not. In the not too distant past Ridlin was a wonder drug for any disruptive kid.....true or false? Today there is a lot better screening than in the recent past so perhaps a bit of slack on your part could be afforded to those who are struggling with this disorder, parents and kids alike.

Bullwnkl.

It'd be tough to afford any more slack. I'm not advocating that Ritalin be outlawed. I'm not even claiming these people shouldn't drug their kids, if that's what they decide is best for them. I'm simply pointing out that A) I was tough to raise, and my parents managed it without drugs, and B) one of my daughters was tough to raise, and my wife and I managed it without drugs.

As to whether ADD and ADHD actually exist, you could say that I'm prejudiced by my experience with the past behavior of the psychiatric community, or you could say that said experience has led me to be more skeptical and discerning when somebody with a degree claims to have invented an expensive new syndrome. At any rate, I am no longer willing to simply accept bald assertions. I'm also not impressed by commercial advertisements that go, "Read these testimonials by Actual Customers (tm) and then buy our (drug / magazine / psychiatric services / website membership / whatever)!"

And in the final analysis, since my wife and I are happy with our lives and our children are grown and happy with theirs, it doesn't make a whit's worth of difference whether I'm an ADD/ADHD True Believer or not, does it? Unless you want me to vote for regulations mandating that parents be forced to drug into submission kids identified by the government as dangerous free-thinkers fraught with innovation, initiative, and insubordination. But you wouldn't have much success there even if I was a True Believer: I'm also a libertarian, so I believe it's an intolerable, appalling outrage when a government tells a parent how to raise a child.

If it doesn't make any difference, it's probably not worth arguing about.

I agree with Barak right down the line.I've been raising kids for 37 years and still have one at home.The first three did fine in public school-oldest is a lawyer,second a MOM,third has a degree and will hopefully become a MOM,third is 17 and has been home-schooled since 5th grade.Point being;they are all individuals and were allowed to be that.2nd point being the public schools have switched direction badly and they were pointed wrong to start with.
I ain't buying the crap about you medicating your kids out of love.You or your wife quit your job and teach the kid how to read and write.Home schooling would be a tough choice if the educational bar was set very high,but the truth is you ain't got much to beat.You might have to move into a smaller house,sell the boat or something,but you are a devoted parent.Right?
How did we get from fearing our kids would get hooked on drugs to worrying they will miss their "fix"?You gonna be surprised when they wind up-if they are lucky-in N.A.?
Which is more humane;a switch or a paddle when they are in first grade and haven't learned to set down and act like one of the bunch,or hauling them to some shrink and getting the do-right pills.Talk about helping a kid's self esteem and making him feel a part of things and------ he has the pills to thank.Right?
There are people who make a good living selling mood-altering chemicals to kids.We used to say we would kill 'em if they sold that crap to OUR kids.
I still will.

Gene, Barak, Y'all have summed up my feelings quite nicely. My son was "Hyperactive" as a boy, we too did the tough love and sat on him, he is now a director of food services for a prison and two road camps. PLUS becoming a company trouble shooter that flies around retraining poorly performing kitchen staff in other facilities his company contracts to. He just returned from 3 weeks in Puerto Rico in fact, that was a challenge, most of the equipment was even in need of replacement.

Barak, that is fair enough...you are entitled to your opinion and are entitled to voice it espcially here for that is what this medium is all about. We need more exchange of ideas and less condemnatiom of others opinions and life choises. I hope you did not take my last post as a tyrade aganst your choises it was not. I only feel that we as parents, those of us who are parents are entitled to determine on how we raise our children. Wether we fell meds are the answer or not this is our choise. As you point out we need to make that decision and it should not be taken lightly. For some the drugs are a real life saver for some they are just baby sitters.

Bullwnkl.

What a relief to see that a few others also think the antidepressant crap is just that, in our area it is an epidemic...adults and kids alike. PURELY driven by money, Doctors get paid to tell you that you need it, and then the Pharmacutical companies get paid to make it...I wonder if any Doctors buy stock in Pharmacutical companies...?

I can't believe people can't just face their own damn life, and live it. Seems like whatever made them depressed will still be there when the pills wear off.

This crap wouldn't be so easy to sell if there were more people raising decent kids, and that will include a spanking or two for a quick learner, more than that for a kid like me...