Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Ask John Barsness Questions About "GETTING THE MOST OUT OF YOUR .30-06"

When I came home from Germany in 1975, I brought back a Sako L61R in .30-06. I settled on 60gr H4831 and a Hornady 165gr Spire Point. This was lit off with the 8 1/2-120 Winchester primer. I have no idea what the velocity was, but it gave consistent 1" groups at 100 yards. After a very long hiatus from reloading (raising 5 children can put a damper on things), I'm getting back into reloading. 1) Is there any appreciable difference between the Hornaday 165gr SST and the 165 BTSP ?
2) I originally picked H4831 as the Hodgdon manual (1975 version) showed quite acceptable velocities with only 44,000 CUP.
Is 60gr H4831SC too much for my Sako. I ask, as I have been told that the buring rate has changed in the last 34 years. Many thanks!

Remmy - you mentioned trying Varget with, I think, 165 grain bullets. (Your second post didn't mention bullet weight.)

Here is a thought if you wish to try a slightly reduced load for deer. I have had good results with 170 Hornady flat nose .30/30 bullets over 47 gr. of R15 with either a CCI250 mag. primer or a standard LR primer. In my Sako this load shoots anywhere from just under to just over 1" groups.

According to the Hornady book this bullet can be driven to about 2500 fps. I haven't chronographed this load but I estimate it is going between 2450 and 2500 fps.

Have tried the same charge weights with both 165 Corelokt bullets and some 168 grain HP match bullets pulled from some .308 ammo I got my hands on. In both cases the results were good.

Since R15 and Varget are close in burning rate it suggests to me that your results with Varget powder may be giving you less velocity than you think.

In any case it is a good light practice load and also quite suitable for deer at woods ranges. Hope this info helps.

Jim

10ntarioJim - You are correct, 165 is the bullet weight I currently have used in my loads.

Is R15 good for extreme temp ranges? I don't know how it compares to Varget?

I have read that benchrest shooters like IMR4350 because of the higher volocity but if I lose some because it is minus 10 out hunting and not 90 when range shooting then an extreme powder does sound better. A chrony is on my wish list.

Reloader 15 is pretty temp-proof these days. Some years ago (say more than a decade) it wasn't so good, but in recent years it is pretty reliable at any temperature. This is due to changes made when it was submitted for use as a military powder.

Mule Deer,

Mag primers, or Standard and why.

I use RL 22.

Thanks,

Spot

Is there any reliable +P data for the 06? I don't believe in red lining a cartridge but in a modern action it just seems that loading to the same 60,000 psi that the 270 is would be safe and sane.

The only loads of this sort I know of are from Bob Hagel's writing and I know these are too "Heman" for me unless in a chamber that is long throated to the point of being free bored.

Not that I know of, though of course that would be possible.

Actually, the SAAMI limit for the .30-06 is 60,000 psi, though most of the factory loads I've seen tested go 58-59.

According to the rules of internal ballistics, adding about 1.5 grains of powder to the typical 55-60 grain .30-06 manual loads would add around 3000-5000 psi. If the original load gets around 58-59,000 psi, this would result in 62-64,000 psi.

I have done this a number of times with various .30-06 manual loads and never enountered the slightest sign of dangerous pressure. I have even had some such loads pressure-rested and often the pressure was still around 60,000.

John, thanks for the article. I enjoyed it.

There's always something new with the 30-06 and components, isn't there? My old pre-64 fwt 30-06 has always been a 1 1/4" rifle, or so I thought. That with your old load of the 165 Hornady and 58.5 grains of IMR4350, which produces 2850 in my rifle's 22" barrel. For whatever reason that rifle hates Nosler partitions.

An aside... That rifle has always been a bit of a reality check for me. It seems I was always playing with my latest wonder rifle. Custom this, special handload that. And as often as not I'd head home from the range pissed off at the new toy. But that old 30-06 with the equally old Leupold 2-7? Every year, every time, it always put that 165 Hornady load in the same spot...2 3/4" high at 100. Every time. And every time I always wondered why I bothered with anything else! And then I'd buy the next "rifle of the week". Gunnutitis? Wonderful, ain't it?

Anyway, about a year ago I decided to try the 150TSX. I worked up to a very comfortable 59 grains of H4350, which clocks 2950 and consistently groups under an inch, usually around 3/4". There are absolutely no pressure signs and I suspect I could get to 3000, but I tend to baby the old girl a bit. Great old cartridge.

Does anyone have the link to this article? Can't seem to find it.

Thanks for the help,

ddj

Can I get the link to "GETTING THE MOST OUT OF YOUR .30-06," sent to me again? I accidently deleted it.

PMing it to you Swampman.

JB is right about IMR-4350. It really is hard to beat in the .30-06. I've been shooting some Ramshot Big Game in my rifles with 150 gr Accubonds. I've been trying loads in the 56 gr range with WLR and also Fed 215M primers. While the accuracy is good, I cannot match the accuracy results I get with 59.0 gr of IMR-4350 and the 150 gr Accubond. In 7 different rifles, (4 winchesters, 2 Rugers, 1 Remington) the IMR load averages .84" for 3-shot groups at 100 yards. The best accuracy combo (so far) with Big Game (55.0 gr with the Fed 215M) averages 1.14". With the IMR load, just about every one of my rifles does 1 MOA or better for 3 shots at 100 yards.
Big Game has shown better velocity, and meters a lot better. (I weigh every charge of IMR-4350.)But the IMR is still hard to beat for accuracy.
Now, about temperature stability- When I do my final fall sight-ins, the temperature is usually around 50 or so. Deer season here in PA (and neighboring New York)it is typical to hunt at 25- 40 degrees. So, the temp difference from sight-in to hunting is maybe 25 degrees, but often less.
So, I just loaded up a couple boxes with 59.0 gr IMR-4350, WLR primer, in W-W brass.
Your results may be different from mine.

Or, run an AI die in the chamber, so it'll hold a little more 4350, use CCI LR Magnums, and top it with a 180 or 200 Partition.

If I need more out of an '06 than that, I go look in the safes and find something 30 or bigger that has a belt and a 26 inch barrel. (Factory Light Mags with the 180 Partitions for the fire members who think all this reload business is too time consuming when they could be in the hills killin' stuff.)

Wayne

I've used IMR-4064 and 4350 in everthing from 30-06 to 220 Swift for over 50 years. Works OK, but meters like gravel. I'm just switching over to ball powder (Reloader).

I too was not able to get the article.

Would greatly appreciate a PM for a link to it.

Thanks,

Steve

I'd like to read it also. I signed up, and also subscribed to Rifles & Recipes, but can't find it???

Thanks,

Lee

Leon,
Thanks for the info.

Steve

I too would like a link to the article.
Paul B.

Enjoyed the article. I always enjoy, and appreciate, articles that have some actual substance to them vice just rehashing manufacturers marketing points.

On a related note, I have some H4350 and some RL17 on the shelf. Both seem to shoot fine and have comparable velocities based on my limited testing. Apparently H4350 is very temperature stable. I'm curious how consistent RL17 is relative to the H4350? I have not had the opportunity to make a valid comparison yet. Rifle is exclusively for hunting, so consistency is more important to me that a few FPS.