A 1/2 inch rifle of a bench at 100 yards is a 1 inch rifle at 200 and a 2 inch rifle at 300 and a 4 inch rifle at 400 and so on. At least in therory, but I think thats close.
Providing a guy can shoot as well as the rifle anyway...(grin)
Some great 100 yard loads don't always seem to shoot as well farther out though. That or it's just harder to hold steady on a distant target. It's hard for me to understand if it's a rifle/load issue or just a bad day shooting. Lots of practice is a good thing.
This morning I worked back from 400 yards to 100 yards. Wanted to see where POI was at with the dots relative to the center crosshair for my 100 hold. Hadn't shot an actual 100 yard group in months, was a piece of cake after shooting at 250-440 yards. (No bench involved either...)
Now I just gotta remember to hold a little low when shooting at gophers...
Mr. Atkinson, I posted a version of this on another forum. There is a guy there who shoots P-dogs at long range, and I mean in excess of 500 yards, pretty much in excess. He said you can generally hit a P-dog with a 1 MOA rifle, although not necessarily the first shot.
Of course, his rifles are much better shooters than that. And he's an extremely good shot. And third, P-dogs pretty much are lethalized if you get a hit most anywhere.
This guy also competes in one-shot matches where the bull is about the size of a dime and it's windy all the time. It's one thing to group tiny, yet another to center a bull the size of a dime (if it's that large, which it may not be, and the distance to the center of the dot is the goal. Very interesting, and he's got another special gun for that, I think.
Last edited by Gene L; 05/16/09.
Not many problems you can't fix With a 1911 and a 30-06
......This guy also competes in one-shot matches where the bull is about the size of a dime and it's windy all the time. It's one thing to group tiny, yet another to center a bull the size of a dime (if it's that large, which it may not be, and the distance to the center of the dot is the goal. Very interesting, and he's got another special gun for that, I think.
We used to shoot One-Shot-For-Center matches for turkeys. Any centerfire rifle could be used, and it was at 200 yd.
I like to test and get familiar with a new rifle off the bench. It is quite a bit easier having time to get set snuggle up to the scope pull back and just get set. Now that I am a bit older and can afford a "better rifle" I am dissappointed with any rifle that when reloaded for, and free floated/ bedded etc can not shoot MOA. My first "deer rifle" was an old sporterized 98 Mauser still in 8mm with the original barrel. All I could afford then, did not reload,used Herters ammo because it was the cheapest ammo around. I learned off hand to hit a dinner plate at 100 yards. My mentor told me that if I could do that reliably I would get a deer. Well In the Northern Minnesota woods that I grew up in that was a true test. I got many deer with that rifle mostly at 75 yards or less. Bench shooting is wonderful, but the old dinner plate offhand at 100 yards still works to this day.
I agree with DJ's statements regarding competition,and any form of shooting being great practice.It builds the muscle memory and skill sets for making yourself a great rifle shot.
Converting the whole target experience over to game shooting is,I think, more a matter of getting the buck fever thing under control,because while both disciplines require a lot of the same skill sets,the "pressure" is different.Blow a match, you get to go home,have a beer, work on your weak points,and resolve to do better next weekend......
Blow a shot at game,and you are unlikely to get another chance...you get to to think about it the rest of your life.Game animals generally don't provide opportunities for redemption.
I learned off hand to hit a dinner plate at 100 yards. My mentor told me that if I could do that reliably I would get a deer.�������������������������������������������������������������
Bench shooting is wonderful, but the old dinner plate offhand at 100 yards still works to this day.���� [/quote]
+1 on that smithrjd
I like to see what a rifle will do off the bench and can� put in quite a bit of time "getting it right" but after that I have an 8 in square steel plate on a hanger that i use for practice. First shot and subsequent shots on the plate is what will put meat on the table or a skite on the wall. Off hand or any of the field positions from whatever distance I back off to, be it 100 or 300yds,� is what gives me confidence when I "go bush".Von Gruff.
I love it when folks claim they've half inch rifles because of a few small groups but can't make it repeat itself because of the "nut behind the trigger" or the "wind". Ever heard of a fluke?
Before it became politically incorrect, there were turkey shoots where a live turkey was put in a steel box behind a berm, with only its head sticking out. It was shot offhand and if you were good, it was a One-Shot-For-Center match.
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
My main obsession is praire dog shooting. I shoot ten shot groups because you don't know what that rifle will do until you get it really warmed up. For all those 1/2" three shot groups out there try putting another seven on top of them and see what happens.
I do the same thing with my varmint rifles. My experience is if you get one that will put 10 in an inch at 100 yards, and NOT while letting the barrel cool, then it's a pretty good PD rifle. If it puts 10 in much less than an inch, it's darn good.
I have owned a few that would put 10 shots in 1/2" at 100 yards, but then I shot them a lot and after a while they quit doing it!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
A "Guarantee" has two parts: 1 - Performance which is assured and 2 - a remedy if that performance is not realized.
Accuracy guarantees of "Guaranteed to shoot 1/2" at 100 yards" are incomplete. What is the remedy if they don't? Is that one group, every group or half the groups?
A proper guarantee would be along the lines of "Guaranteed to shoot three 3-shot groups, in a row, at 100 yards, that average .5" or less or we'll pay return shipping, repair it and send it back to you with confirmation targets and information on ammunition used".
I've run into people that guaranteed they could build a 1/2" or less rifle shooting .308 factory match ammo. I've offered to buy one, and pay for their travel, if they would demonstrate it by shooting five 5-shot groups that averaged .5" or less.
If it didn't average .5" or less, I wouldn't buy it and the travel would be on them.
I've yet to have anyone take me up on the offer.
There are those who guarantee accuracy, with factory ammunition, that is better than what the factory gets out of their rail-gun test barrels. I've often wondered how that could be possible?
I thought rifles were a lot more accurate before I started testing them.
Ken O, you are correct. The more I do this the more I understand just how little I really know.
A "Guarantee" has two parts: 1 - Performance which is assured and 2 - a remedy if that performance is not realized.
Accuracy guarantees of "Guaranteed to shoot 1/2" at 100 yards" are incomplete. What is the remedy if they don't? Is that one group, every group or half the groups?
A proper guarantee would be along the lines of "Guaranteed to shoot three 3-shot groups, in a row, at 100 yards, that average .5" or less or we'll pay return shipping, repair it and send it back to you with confirmation targets and information on ammunition used".
I've run into people that guaranteed they could build a 1/2" or less rifle shooting .308 factory match ammo. I've offered to buy one, and pay for their travel, if they would demonstrate it by shooting five 5-shot groups that averaged .5" or less.
If it didn't average .5" or less, I wouldn't buy it and the travel would be on them.
I've yet to have anyone take me up on the offer.
There are those who guarantee accuracy, with factory ammunition, that is better than what the factory gets out of their rail-gun test barrels. I've often wondered how that could be possible?
I thought rifles were a lot more accurate before I started testing them.
Ken O, you are correct. The more I do this the more I understand just how little I really know.
You are trying to make something very simply way too complicated.
Les Baers guarantee is simple. They shoot 2 5 shot groups under 1/2" at 100yds. Then they send you the targets for proof and the loads they used.
If the gun doesn't shoot the same for you, it's you.
Pretty simple, why make it complicated...................................DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
You are trying to make something very simply way too complicated.
Les Baers guarantee is simple. They shoot 2 5 shot groups under 1/2" at 100yds. Then they send you the targets for proof and the loads they used.
If the gun doesn't shoot the same for you, it's you.
Pretty simple, why make it complicated...................................DJ[/quote]
The world is a complicated place.
I've had the good fortune to see rifles, many rifles, shot from three different types of "return-to-battery" fixtures. They are designed to reduce, as much as possible, human error. I've also had the good fortune to shoot many shots from a barreled action clamped into a rail-gun.
Interestingly enough people, using benchrest techniques, shoot precision rifles just as well as return-to-battery rests...at least for a limited number of groups. Hey, the machines don't get tired!
Like I said before, I thought rifles and ammunition were much more accurate when I didn't have any experience testing them.
If restricted to factory ammunition, I don't think I've seen more than about 5 rifles I'd call true "1/2 minute rifles."
I've had the good fortune to see rifles, many rifles, shot from three different types of "return-to-battery" fixtures. They are designed to reduce, as much as possible, human error. I've also had the good fortune to shoot many shots from a barreled action clamped into a rail-gun.
Interestingly enough people, using benchrest techniques, shoot precision rifles just as well as return-to-battery rests...at least for a limited number of groups. Hey, the machines don't get tired!
Like I said before, I thought rifles and ammunition were much more accurate when I didn't have any experience testing them.
If restricted to factory ammunition, I don't think I've seen more than about 5 rifles I'd call true "1/2 minute rifles."
YMMV
Again you are making things too complicated and assuming things that aren't true.
Les Baer doesn't use machine rests to test rifles. Les Baer usually shoots the groups himself. He signed the target that came with my rifle..........................................DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
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