|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Here is picture of 4bore/ga action with lever open and breach down.You see bottom of breach block.The action and barrel will be held in stock with 2 bolts into bottom of action one bolt in barrel ahead of action and a recoil barrel ring in front end of stock. Didn't have to add any recoil lugs, as the wide back of the action is the recoil lug. This is now called the Hubel Falling Block Action. Second picture is of the 4bore cases and 2000gr slugs, with 20mm case I make 4bore/ga cases from and the 30-06 for comparison.Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Here is picture of the 12ga wad column using two BPI BPGS seals, Flexseal,cork, and sabot. Bret in MN has, in a long heavy rifled barreled Savage like mine, gotten 28-3000 fps with a 500 gr XTP bullet in the sabot with a 3.5" plastic case. And it extracts ok with the Savage bolt action extractor. He is using slow shotgun powder, Alliant Steel.I can't get that high in my NEF 12GA FH and make the extractor work with the Alliant Steel powder loads. The NEF handles pressures fine, just doesn't extract like a bolt action Savage 210. Using RE17 without cork, I get 28-2900, with max of much slower RE17 with 420gr slug in the sabot.The case shown was fired with the RE17 load like that....Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Here is picture of NEF I've set up with my 700H 3.25" belted case to show the versatility of NEFs and my 700. The 700 cal barrel monoblocked like I did the 585HE. I put monblocked barrel on the same SB2 frame that I have my 12GA FH on as it has the beefed up firing pin for big primers use in our 12GA FH case and in my 700H case. Other projects coming.I found a heavy 16ga barrel to monoblock in one to test the 16GA FH cartridge I made. It is the 3.5" brass case mentioned earlier in the thread. Also a bunch of us are going to take 500 S&W NEFs and put my 499 HE case in them, with just a chamber job. It is a case that will get the zip in 500gr slugs. NEFs are great guns to experiment with and along with reasonable costs, we don't have to worry about case length. Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Here is picture of a falling block a guy on Weaponsforum has picked up to finish. The fellow who started building it laid it aside for awhile and the new guy is going to finish in BMG. It has 50cal bbl on it. Looks easily big enough for 12ga,10ga,8ga, my 700s. The lever on left is cocking mechanism, The tube in back is a firing striker and spring and it hits the hammer block you see in the back of the breach block, which hits firing pin ahead of it in breach. It is the the only one like it. They've put a lot of work into it, especially the hammer block striker setup.Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
In related big bore work we got a Montana Rifle Co, PH action setup in my 700H 3.25" case. Fired test load of 825gr at 3000 fps. This was just one test load. Normal max loads are 825gr at 2850 and 1000gr at 2700.Hunting loads 24-2500, First PH fired outside the factory.It is in first picture. PH will work for any big case and my 585HE.And if anyone looking at big actions for 12ga FH, here is picture of MRC PH with a 3.5" 12ga case partly into action. The PH cam be used for 12ga with action and rails opened like I did my 700H in Enfield. And a little changing on the bolt face and extractor In 12 ga it still would have 60% of front lugs contacting and you'd add bearing lug surface to bolt handle base so it would handle same pressures as Savage 210. And 3.5" with average length 12ga slug would feed from the magazine. Our longer case would work with port opened and some mag work. Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Got single stack mag figured out for 12GA FH and my 700H 3.25 in PH. I fit a bolt action 12ga box mag and its follower and spring inside the PH mag box. Easy to fit in metal box, and permanently mounted to metal and floorplate. Holds 2 down. That way feed lips already a working design. And opened back of 12ga box for longer case like I did with my 700 in Savage 210. Also work for anyone doing a PH in 12ga FH if they aren't loaded too long or with 3.5" RMC cases. Using most cast 12ga bullets like Dixies, the overall length with 3.5 brass is 3.9" and fits 4.05" box ok. Here is picture PH from bottom showing its big size.You can see in pic there still is room to make box longer yet. And the feed port can be longer.Montana Rifle has great action here with lots off room and strength.Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692 |
Very interesting project you have going.
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
I got barrel on the 4ga/bore falling block gun. Barrel 32" long, 1.87" breech, gun is 27 lbs. Notice breech block is down and huge hole in barrel. Maybe shoulder cannon is the right term for it. It is all inleted into thumbhole laminated Vulcan 50 cal stock, of which I need more, if anyone knows where there are any. 4 bore cases shown, and I'll use a big ammomaster press for them..Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Here is a picture of the front end of the 4bore, showing a 2000gr slug protuding out. Simulating stop action photo work, as if anyone wwould be brave enough to put a camera out in front of it when it fired. Will have it firing by fall. I plan on using hollowbase lead slugs of about 1600gr, as it is a smoothbore. Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
got 3" chambered 12ga set up to test loads with RE-17. Many guys want loads for 3" chambered slug barrels as they come from the factory., So I put extra 24" Savage barrel I had on a Mauser GEHA bolt action. Rifled Savage barrel is modern steel with .93" muzzle diameter. Original barrel on the GEHA was only .82" at muzzle. I added an extra rear bolt locking lug onto the Mauser bolt. Using up stuff to make test gun.
Any modern steel slug barrel, whether on bolt, autoloading, pump, or break action gun with same muzzle diameter will handle these RE-17 loads. Max loads were all 115gr of RE-17 in plastic 3" cases, all with seals and cushion wads. Can't get no more under the seals, cushions and slugs in 3". Which is why I like 3.5" chambers. With 437 gr Brenekkee and 420 gr in BPI sabot got over 1900. With 520gr Lyman in shot cup 1850. With 600gr Dixie got 1800. With 870 gr hard lead got 1600. This is 24" barrel, so longer barrels will get more. In comparison to IMR4227 loads, these are about the same speed as using 90gr of 4227. But this powder is so much easier on cases and guns, with about .004" less base cup expansion. It works great in 3" and really gets the speed in 3.5" cases, as in 3.5" cases,as seal/wads about same, extra length for powder. The 870gr load is max peak pressure of 16,000 psi. Muzzle pressure is about 3500-4000 psi. I'll have pic of the Mauser in few days.ED
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Here is picture of my 695 Mossberg bolt action. It is 28ga FH, a 3.25" long brass case. Was a 12ga with light barrel. I also have a heavy 12ga barrel chambered for 3.5" cases and a .500" barrel for my 499HE a real long brass case. Also I am doing my 499HE in a NEF. You can get a NEF with MMouse 500S&W and run my reamer in and get real power.The 395,495,595 actions will work also, as they like the 695 have double bolt lugs and a loading port that can be lengthened. And they have a nice style...Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
We get asked about finned slugs for 12ga smooth bores and if they take high speed. Well they'll do just as good at high speed as the locked on wad stablized Brenekkee OK slug I tested in my smoothbore 1887 with long barrel, in first pic. Second pic is a Corbin finned slug I will get and test later. Third is BPI AQ slug I will test, few weeks in the 87. I'm going to test also in a regular smooth bore 12ga slug barrel of medium muzzle size.Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Here is picture of the Mauser GEHA shotgun I setup with an Savage 210 rifled barrel. Used a Savage plastic stock also. It is setup with the original 3" chamber. I have many guys who want ideas and slug/load combination's tested in regular rifled slug barrels, so this is the one. Most testing will be 3" plastic cases. Barrel 24" long, .93" regular slug size muzzle diameter. The GEHA was originally converted from 98 Mausers in Germany in the 20s, to 12ga by reaming outl the front lug seats and using the rear safety lug. I added a second rear bearing lug and it handles 15,000 psi loads ok. The cases come out with the weight of the bolt. That will be max pressure used in it, with that slug gun barrel thickness. Example load is 115gr of RE17 in 3" plastic case, with 520 gr Lyman cast slug at 1850 plus fps. This load expands the plastic case base cups about .005", in comparison, a REM factory Buckhammer and other super mag turkey and goose loads expands .010". And we have over 300 fps more velocity.Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 90
Campfire Greenhorn
|
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 90 |
Thanks for keeping the updates coming on these projects Ed, they are very interesting!
Over here we can only dream about projects like these.
Peter
"I spent 90% of my money on women, drink and fast cars. The rest I wasted." - George Best
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,443
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,443 |
you didnt respond to my PM Hubel458
30-06 till i die, the greatest round ever! I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy! CEO of a Turdlike People: Turds & Tats Division... (per Ingwe )
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
I replied to pm.Sorry for not catching it. Testing some .660" diameter 630 gr hard cast slugs in the red WIN wadcup in 3.5" plastic case. Tested in rifled long barrel in 12ga NEF about 2100 fps. Greg Sappington makes these. They are hollow point. 3" group at 50yds, peep sight, bad eyes. I also fired a couple to see if they'd work in my long brass cased 16GA FH shown in the picture. They work ok, so Greg has a double duty slug.They'd work in 16ga plastic also. The 16ga was held at 1500 as the barrel isn't heavy, on Stevens/Revelation 16ga. Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Comparing brass cases.I tell everybody who are stepping up in power from 3.5 plastic, you can get 3.5" brass cases from Rocky Mtn Cartridge. Here you can see how heavy and nice they are compared to regular brass cases. They also make shorter 3" brass cases also. They fit the chamber tight and are long enough to get some serious thumping power.And they have a super strong, thick , solid head, not a weak balloon head like regular ones on the left in pic.Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 406
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 406 |
I lost track of Greg...do you have a email or phone number for him by any chance, Ed????
I'm all out of his lighter 600-800 gr slugs and only 95 of his 1050gr Bear Busters left.
I would like to try some of those 600 grainers for use in my Mossy 500, 535 and Rem 870 plus develope a hi-velo load for the NEF 12GaFH and trimmed down to 3.5" NoBoZo cases.
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Greg's # 1-908-248-8146 Tested my 499HE in a NEF. Loads I didn't have to full length resize the case, only top 1/4 of case. 325gr at 2600, 500gr at 2150. In NEF got both weight bullets 300 fps faster, still extracted very easy.I got reamer. Just run it in NEF 500 chamber and you got a blaster. And add a little weight and thick pad to the gun.I have a barrel ring to hold forearm along with original bolt, as I added weight there as well as the butt.Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Finally an 870 with longer 1" muzzle barrel. Barrel is heavier than most all add on pump gun barrels, and it is 25.5" long, Something that would really get it on with the slower powder loads we have. Rifled barrel is solid mount in receiver, scoperail solid mount. It is the REM 870 Super Slug Gun. Nice long heavy barrel, and thumbhole stock for handling recoil better. Plastic case 3" slug loads of ours that gets 600gr slugs to 1800-1900 fps, work great in this Like the ones I load and roll crimp in second picture that are setting behind the little vise, and the one in the vise readt to be crimped...Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
601 members (1lessdog, 12344mag, 10Glocks, 17CalFan, 10ring1, 1beaver_shooter, 62 invisible),
2,467
guests, and
1,357
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,358
Posts18,527,128
Members74,031
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|