Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Lab owners, whats up with my dog not wanting to fetch?

Sam & Belle out looking for sheds a couple years ago...

Is your dog a Southpaw???
Sorry, I had to...

As for some other things Ive seen on the thread, yep, Ive seen many pitbulls that were nuts for fetching. Ive got two herding dogs( BCxAussie and Border Collie) both crazy for it...fetch anything that isn't on fire...
The four month old/ distraction thing will probably work itself out...specially if you make playing with YOU more fun than any distractions...
Treat training?... I can see it for alot of things, either the treat, the toy, or affection,should be motivators....must say Ive never seen a treat used in conjunction with a toy....usually the toy ( in this case ball) is a bigger motivator than a treat.
When I personally treat train anything, the treats gradually get weaned away and replaced by affection, physical and verbal praise....just the way I roll, I'm sure opinions abound, thats just the one I stick with..
Ingwe

EH 76; did you train those two to hunt sheds, or are they just in it for the "good times"??
Reason I ask, is I have been asked about that type of training and have never done it, with what I know about training and olfactory capabilities of a dog I can only guess it would either be a real challenge...or a slam dunk...
Never having done it, I don't know which...
Inquiring minds...
Ingwe

ingwe,

Mine just picked it up naturally by picking up my sheds from my yard and chewing on them like the bone they are. Now when we go out the find them and pick them up. When I caught them with the sheds around the house I took them from them but did not scold them for picking them up. I even started playing fetch with them. Belle (black) is the one that will wear you out playing fetch. As long as you throw she will not quit. She is the birdy one too. I don't hunt either of them for birds as we just don't have much bird hunting.

EH 76; sounds good...thats pretty much how you get them started on it, I figured...its always gotta be a game...
How are they in the field with sheds you've never touched??
Didn't know if that would make them stub a toe...or not..
Thanks
Ingwe

The day that picture was taken we only found a couple old ones. That was in late March IIRC. Fresh ones they will pick up. Sam might just lay down and chew on them so I have to keep an eye on him. Belle will pick up sticks too. I think she like to play fetch more than anything. Out in the wheat strips she probably thinks is is a smelly stick. I am sure they miss far more than we find. Just fun to be out there. And if we are near water forget it, it is swim time then! Funny thing is they mind me better out there than at home.

Excellent...you confirmed one of my thoughts...the longer they lay, the harder they are to detect...kinda the same thing we find training K9 for evidence searches....
Thanks for the input...
Have fun out there with those labs!
Ingwe

Seriously. Joel? Jane?

Just in from fishing..


When you treat train, you are training a dog to respond to your commands only when you have a treat. It teaches them they get rewarded for doing what they should be doing in the first place.(listening to their Master)

Imagine sitting in a duck blind fumbling around for a dog treat so your dog responds to your commands.

Or your dog gets away from you and you call him back and don't have a treat on you... WHACK (car)

I can't tell you how many people say "my dog only listens to me when I have a treat"..


My labs were a learning experience. They are not perfect, but most people are amazed by them when we are out in the field. As a pup, you play fetch over and over again with them until it is an obsession for them. Start them very young. About at 16 weeks the "play" stops and it becomes work for them, and you need to start requiring them to do it by your rules. You start with the basics "sit, stay, come". After you dog has mastered "sit stay come", then you can train them to do amazing things in the field.


What's really funny is when I see parents treat train their kids... And then they wonder why their kids turn out to be little Chits..

I can't really say it any better than Calvin said it.

Dogs should be conditioned/trained for obedience, not reward.

It's not to say you can't reward with a treat, once and a while. Heck my azzholes get pancakes on Christmas and meat on thanksgiving....and sometimes roasted weenies during a grill out.

But when I tell mine to sit...or stay.....or calm, I want them to sit because it was an important command...coming from me, not because they may or may not GET a treat.

It's a fine line....balancing reward, respect, and non-negotiable commands. Sit IS sit, and stay is stay, and there isn't any treat for doing it.

In the long run, it keeps them safe....and the direction of the command unconditional, if that makes any sense.

But then again, all my rascals are rescues and come with age and baggage<grin>....

First things first. Always remember, you have to be smarter than the dog. All domestic animals can be taught to retrieve. You have to focus their mins. You do this by isolation. How to keep them coming straight back to you? Use a hallway with all doors closed. Se on the floor holding the dog, have some one call and yell hey, hey hey to get his attention. Call the dogs name while holding him and you can see he is focused on the object to be retrieved and nod to have the objected release and send him with his call name.

Keep the animal pended up in kennel with retrievable outside of his or her cage while locked in. I use a squeaker toy for this and make them go nuts from getting there mouth on the toy. The only focus for the dog, taken outside for nature calls and food and water and back to the gage.

If you can get him to watch another dog getting atention for retreiving,he will be trained in minutes.Some dogs see no reason for the game.And when they get bored and tired, they can't find it.

Thanks J and J.

My idea of treat training was to start with it and wean them off of it when they started getting the idea. To use treats to exclusivity, is a poor method and as you mentioned potentially dangerous.

Our lab mixes are pets, but are real good at sit/stay/come.

At feeding time they are on a sit/stay watching the bowl put in front of them, and wait for the command.

I see folks that use treats to reward their horses after a barrel race run. They are no sooner out the gate and the horse has their nose on the rider's knee looking for the treat. I'm waiting for a knee to get bitten.

Thanks for the explanation.

There is nothing wrong with using treats for training. Some dogs need positive reinforcement, and some breeds excel by using treats to train. Dogs won't go on strike in the future, just because you no longer use treats.

As far as the fetching goes...either the dog has it, or he doesn't. I believe you dog is too young still, to draw any conclusions. My old lab loved to fetch, to the point that it was really annoying, and made me not want another lab. If you weren't throwing her something, she would get her feelings all hurt.

Same with rhinos, eland, zebra, and giraffe. Since most commands are made with both a verbal and physical command with the hand....it just doesn't make much sense to have an animal looking at your hand, as it is associated with reward. Good way to get bit, especially if the goal is to inspect the oral health of the animal or try to take blood.

But they do teach it at PetSmart, so it must be a proven method<grin>....

The lab in my avatar got treats on a regular basis. Usually because I'd ask him if he wanted one. I'd sometimes ask him if he wanted a bone or a hot dog...when I did he'd end up standing in front of the fridge by the time I got there...if you gave him the option, it was always hot dogs...bones were on the counter. I started giving him rewards for good behavior when he still had teet breath...he was always grateful but never came to expect it...just tell him no & that was the end of it. I spent a lot of time with that dog, probably because he was so damn smart...or maybe he was so damn smart because I spent a lot of time with him. You reap what you sow.

Yep, Mine will bring me my boots, or my shoes, and knows the difference. He'll bring me my hat, even if he has to get it off my head to do it, when told to, and he'll get the paper out in the yard without getting it wet.

He gets ducks and geese out of icewater, and sticks out of whitewater when told to. And can point pheasants just fine, as well as retrieve them.

He can stand up on his back legs and spin in a circle when told to dance, sit up, play dead, roll over, shake hands, or play guess which hand. He also can balance food on his nose for a long time until you tell him he can have it.

He stays in the back of the truck until he's told to get out, and he will stay in the shade under the truck when it's hot out and I tell him to stay under there, until I tell him that he doesn't have to anymore.

I can point out a line on the floor, like where carpets change color or to tile and tell him to stay on the other side of it and he will.

He was not trained for obedience showing, I have had other dogs that were shown for that in the past, but he does heel and sit, front, stay, and lay, when told to, just not all parallel and square like he would need to in a dog show.

Too bad I'm one of them stupid [bleep] that taught him all that with treats -- he doesn't get one all the time though, not even half the time. But he still does what I tell him to every time.

i see no problem with training with treats.....so long as it isnt a treat everytime and yah use praise the rest......treats have usually helped some dogs ive had get the idea down faster and then after that they only get a treat every once in awhile for doing as told.....

Too many responses to read, so I apologize if this has already been stated.

First, 4 months is still very young. Getting a bond between you and him is the most important thing at this stage.

Some dogs are natural retrievers, some are not. Try teasing him with the object, then throw it. When he runs over and grabs it, clap your hands, yell hey! hey! hey! and get his attention. He should run towards you with the ball (or whatever) in his mouth. Then run away from him, but let him catch up. When he is running right beside you, suddenly turn around (literally blocking his path) and and grab the object out of his mouth before he drops it. You may have to slow down while running/trotting backwards. Do this 2 or 3 times then be done for the day. Try to run 20 or so yards with him trying to catch you before you turn and grab the ball out of his mouth. For some reason labs usually keep the bumper or ball in their mouth when you run away from them, instead of dropping it. He should get the idea soon enough.

This guy had the same problem, but doing what I explained started transforming him into an incredible retrieving machine.


If this doesn't make sense, PM me and I'll explain it in more detail.

I train derby dog (under 2 ears of age) to use their eyes with pop corn on cement pad. I throw faster the their use of their nose would allow. But I do not use any treats such as food for normal training.

The reason is because retrieving is fun, it's never work if you are training to retrieve. Training with pressure is what I suggest, all training has to have pressure. If you get to the point of running to, run blinds you have to have the dog trained with pressure. He has got to know that you send him and the reward for him, going is the fun of the retrieve it will always be there. The reward is the retrieve. Your best for training is a complete understanding of dog behavior.