Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors The story behind the stock compass

Stock compasses have been talked about for a long time here and just happened to see this the other day. This was copied from HuntingPA.com and submitted by a guy who goes by "Setters4life"


Here's the story behind the one made by Poly-Choke:

My grandfather, Dad and uncle grew up and hunted with this fellow going back to the 40's. All shared an interest in bird hunting, raising and training English Setters, and annual trips to Maine each year for grouse and woodcock. This man, Michael J. LaViano, also started a small jewelry business in 1945 here in New Jersey. He had a penchant for always getting lost in the thick woods of Maine, and I'm sure back then that area was pretty rural still. Being a jeweler, he also had a penchant for designing, tinkering and building small intricate things with his hands. He designed a small, well-made brass and glass compass that sat in the top of a buttstock to help a hunter find his way out of the woods.

With two witness marks, it was easy to use. To use, you would orient and point the muzzle of the gun say to a horizontal reference like a logging road, line up the two marks, and head off into the woods. You always knew a general direction to head back to in order to find the road you walked off of by turning the dial to line up those two marks and head in the direction the muzzle was pointing.

Michael's jewelry business flourished and he had a number of well-heeled clients and contacts. Somehow, he got introduced to the owner of Poly-Choke and sold him the patent rights to his compass and he collected a small royalty for the next forty or so years for each sale.

Every shotgun of my Dad's, uncles and cousin's I ever hunted with as a kid all had those little Poly-Choke compasses mounted in the buttstock. EVERY family member had at least one or two in their possession.

My father still has three. One each mounted in an old M37, Sweet-Sixteen, and an old Beretta Silver Hawk. They all still work beautifully. Made in America. Imagine that?

Mike's sons still run the business he started, and his son Jack still bird hunts and raises English Setters.

I came across an otherwise mint condition 99F in 250 a few years ago at a gunshow that had a compass on the stock. Other than that, it was mint. Maybe from that fellow..

It's now all falls into place --- POLY-CHOKE promoted these!!!! How many fine shotguns have had the collector value ruined by their chokes ..... or recoil pads? Did they also have something to do with scope mounts and tapped holes by any chance?

Didn't you guys know that the first name of the guy who owned and founded POLY-CHOKE was "Bubba"?

Backin the day none of my family had enough money to have a seperate gun for each species of game bird. Poly choke and Cutts turned your pheasant gun into a very respectable goose and grouse gun. None of those guns were COLLECTABLES at the time, they were just tools to harvest game. I loved my JC Higgin's Model 50 with a Cutt's, shot it till the breechblock was so loose the firing pin wouldn't reach the primer anymore. My 250Savage Take Down had the stock shortenned and then a recoil padded when someone grew up. It wasn't BUBBA that ruined the collectors value for YOU but a really nice dad or husband that got a rifle fitted to a shooter of smaller stature. Nobody made youth guns.

Then there's the drilled and tapped rifles, most were bought years before scopes were considerred reliable or even optically good enough to carry in the woods. Bubba didn't D&T those fine old collectables they were just old rifles that could be make to work just as good as the fancy new (expensive) rifles by just drilling a couple holes in the reciever and mounting a scope just like the new 99's.

Heck I bought a 99 375 Brushgun new, they couldn't give them away hardly, I think I paid half the price of a Win 94 in 375.
The forend was too fat and the grip way thicker than my 250 TD. I shortenned the stock, slimmed the forend and thinned the stock. Was I Bubba or did I take a really junk handling rifle that had absolutely no resale value at the time and turn it into a great handling still hunting gun and still my favorite for sneaking through the forests of Northern WI and MN.

erich

You have a "down to earth" understanding. I understand the shortening of a stock for a youth. No question!!! What I don't understand is the cutting of a stock and adding a recoil pad and maintaining the standard length of pull. ESPECIALLY on a light gun, such as a .243 or 250-3000. We've all seen that. Guns were/are tools.

Don't blame Poly-Choke. Nobody was ever forced at gun point to buy their products. "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

To me a Bubba'ed gun is one with misaligned screw holes, hideously re-shaped wood, barrels shortened to a fare-thee-well, etc. In short, obviously doctored-up down in the basement by someone equipped only with K-Mart quality hand tools, no knowledge of how to use them, no artistic eye, and probably under the influence of alcohol.

I would jump on a 99 w/condition and a compass like a chicken on a June bug, 'cause I could do a decent job of camoflaging it.

I understand why they drilled holes in the wood for sling swivels and even drilled and tapped them for scopes, but I can't forgive anybody for cutting a stock or a barrel. There were no youth guns in the old days...but any women or 12 year old kid can shoot a factory 30-30 model 94. No need to butcher a fine gun. I guess you guys are more forgiving than I am. And I sure don't get the whole compass in the stock thing. Why not carry it in your pocket or pin it on your coat?

To me a gun is a masterpiece of art and engineering. It's not a tool to pound nails with. I guess some see it differently...hey that is OK with me.

Randy

Just playing devil's advocate here. What was a working stiff gonna do? Go out and spend $100 for a new rifle (in a time when he was probably bringing home $100/week), or re-hab Grampa's old Savage rifle for Junior tu use deer hunting (instead of the the old 12 gauge single shot w/pumpkin balls)? Economic constraints were probably the cause for many a Bubba to clomp down the cellar steps with hacksaw in hand. As such, I can't get too riled up over it. You should have seen what my Mom and Dad did in order to get me outfitted for my very first day of deer hunting. (Hint: no Savage 99's were harmed in the making of that story!)

I can admit to Bubba'ing (using the commonly accepted definition) 2 as new factory guns in my day: A BR-78 Browning, and M77 Ultalight Ruger. The Browning lost it's high gloss finish and gained a London oil finsh, and lost the Pachmayr pad and gained a Niedner steel buttplate. The .257 Roberts Ruger was new in the box when I had 1 1/2" removed from the butt. My 95lb. 4'11" girlfriend couldn't handle it otherwise.

Glad to hear no 99's were harmed to get you in the woods for your first hunt!

My grandfather paid $25 for a "used" model 94 Winchester to get my dad started. He was probably (more like maybe) making $100 a week at the time. I still have the gun and it is in excellent shape. No need to break out the hammers, files and saws.

I'm trying to objectively see your points, But I don't know...whenever I hear the two words "gun" and "saw" used in the same sentence, I can only think of one word..."Bubba"

Randy

Has anyone ever seen a 99 with a Marble's pin on compass modified and drilled into the stock? Pachmeyer can't be the only purveyor of Bubba accessories.

I think we have 2 view points, one the collector and the other the family who used guns. My Grand father got his first, used and modified M94 in the 1910/11 time period in payment for reparining a storm damaged barn. He had still been using M/Ls until then. The rest of the family continued to use M/L rifles and shotguns until the early 1920s when they bought surplus Krag 30/40 and modified them, Bubba as you say. The shotguns then were surplus 97s. Every thing had to be used by their 7 kids and other relatives. The best handling rifle I have today is my Granddads highly modified 30/40. I was the first one in the family to own a new gun and it was a present to me from Dad and Granddad when I went into the service, 1959. All of this rambling is ment to say some of us were delighted that we had any gun to use and there are a lot of good history with both types of guns. So lets look at both sides of the stories/history of each gun and maybe even give them a try out in the field.

If all old guns were still in pristine condition there would be no need for, or fun in, collecting. All old guns would be worth the same. Collectors should be thankful for all those modified and beat up guns.

Rifles are easier for youth to adjust too than a wing shooting shotgun. When my son was about 12yrs old I picked up a nice little Ithica 20ga double. The stock was too long and the recoil bothered him. I had a gunsmith cut the stock down and a pad installed. I never gave that gun to him and bought him a regular sized shotgun when he was older. He is 45yrs now, and I still have that little double. It is never home. Six or eight families have kept that gun and 10-12 young hunters have started out on it. Life is good.

I just purchased a shooter Mod 99 in .243 for my 11 yr old granddaughter's first deer hunt I am thinking that we can work around the extra length for a year or two of blind hunting.