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Your comments suggest you don't know jack schit about medical treatment or care in the US. What brought you here?..visiting family and friends from Canada who came to the US for treatment?

I'd love to hear your personal experiences as to US health care.

Remember when you reply not to confuse health costs with care and treatment.

Be willing to bet I know more about the US system than you do about the Canadian one. I lived in the US for 23 years. My parents lived there for all/most of their lives, and my sister still lives there. I experienced the US system first hand, as a patient and as a son to two aging parents who have now passed away.

My mother died of Parkinson's disease. After a long series of battles with US doctors who couldn't help her, she came to UBC Medical in Vancouver, where one of the world's experts on Parkinson's is a resident. He managed to arrange more satisfactory treatment for her, and she was amazed at the overall quality of hospital and medical service she received, in addition to being shocked by the lesser fees charged.

My sister is a retired hospital administrator, and I've listened to her horror stories about HMO's, and how they dictate which services, treatments, doctors, and medicines their clients may and may not have.

Whatever constraints we face here from our Provincial health care providers are nothing compared to that, and that, too, I've experienced directly, as my wife fought a losing battle with colon and liver cancer for five years. She received excellent care and service - all tests, scans, specialist consults, experimental treatments, etc. delivered promptly and expertly. I had nothing to complain about, and I was constantly doing research on new techniques and treatments available around the world, trying to catch them doing less than they could (I was in constant touch with my sister, telling her what was being done and having her compare with the treatment available there). I couldn't find fault with her care, despite looking. I'm sure that I could have received equal care and treatment in the US, but I know I would have paid for it dearly and had more than a few fights with the insurance companies in the process

If you want to pretend that you've got the better system, go ahead.

There's much I could say in response but after the passing of both your mom and wife in Canada, I can understand why emotion rules over facts so I'll mostly take a pass.

Your last sentence pretty much encapsulates what I was thinking. It was the cost that was your focus, not the care. As for cancer cure and survival, there's the US as the clear world leader and well below that falls the rest of the world.

Those are the facts, not pretend, but I can certainly understand what compels you to believe as you do.

Thanks Mac84 for noticing.Cheers NC

I believe I answered your accusation about my lack of personal experience and knowledge of the US system (I do know Jack Schitt, as you so cleverly put it), and am wondering what you have experienced of the Canadian system.

Live here for 25 years and I'll be happy to listen to your comparison.

Every time I hear a foreigner tell us about our "superiority complex" what follows gets flushed. Facts are facts and the Canadian system is a third world system based on socialism. The ones that can afford it come from all over the world to get fixed here, the best doctors come from all over the world to practice here. What we need to do here is get the government out of the private sector except to oversee regulations, control frivolous lawsuits and allow the interstate purchase of insurance plans. For the 15 million that are unable to pay, then the gov't can help. HMOs are a product of gov't regulation and they need to go. jorge

Watch out, Jorge, sounds like third world socialism to me.

Like I said to isaac, live here for 25 years and compare.

Some posters throughout both similar threads have lived in both countries. They don't share your views and, in fact, they are quite opposite. So are many who live there now who post here.

If you've lived in Canada for 25 years now, please forgive if phone calls to your sister inside the states and her rants as to HMO's isn't that persuasive for me. HMO's are just one of the many, many options that citizens of the US have as a insurance option. Choice is a great thing. Ooops sorry, I forgot, you don't have a choice.

Well, my Mom had a choice. We live in a remote location in NW Ontario, and do not have local access to CT Scan, or MRI. We have to travel about 90 miles for a CT scan, and about 200 miles for an MRI. That is not because I live in Canada, but because of WHERE I live in Canada -- my CHOICE.

My Mom got tired of going back and forth to Winnipeg to see specialists and having MRI's done, so Dad took her to the MAO Clinic in Minnesota. He paid the entire bill for her trip there, and in three days of appointments and tests, her problem was diagnosed. She was told the problem, given the files, and sent home for the operation. It was expensive, but she was worth it.

I have been pretty healthy most of my life, and have not had to use the "system" very much. Our health care is not free to anyone that pays taxes -- only to those who do not. It is not perfect. No system is perfect for everyone. It needs help -- every system needs help.

My MIL and FIL live in Michigan. They aren't wealthy, but are people of means. He was a business owner, and had a health insurance plan for his employees, and opted in for himself. He got good care quickly, but I'm sure he wasn't afraid to drop a nickel out of his own pocket to top up. He died at 89. He did pretty good. My MIL is 88, and doing pretty well still. Her dad lived to 94. They have paid their way.

The problem I see with our Canadian system is that I am paying my way, and a couple other families' ways as well.

I'm not either for or against either "system" - Canadian or American. We live in different countries, and although we share a boundary, we are different societies -- not better or worse -- DIFFERENT!

You share another boundary as well -- to the south. Beat up THEIR health care system -- compare it to yours, OR OURS. They are a distinct society as well.

That's essentially the point the vast majority of Americans are making. We are a very different society and we don't want our Government being involved in our health care to the same extent the Canadian government is involved in yours.

In the US, it's citizens make their own decisions as to what is best for their family as to medical care. This country will not tolerate the choice being dictated to us.

Well okay, but in Canada, health is a provincial issue, not a federal one.

And it appears that the recurring theme, as of late, in the Provinces is to have competing privatization.

Please don't misunderstand me. When I read posts from folks I respect like Mosaic Lynn, who writes of being pleased with her system of medical care, I couldn't be more pleased for her. It's when folks like the hand-puppet BC try to push Canada's health plan as the ultimate by citing purely propoganda driven ads for socialistic practices, that folks step up to the plate and dress him down. It's not, at all, intended to insult or minimize the beauty of your country or it's citizens.

This nation is not a hand puppet to our Government. It is why you'll never see our nation stand for a usurping of our 2nd Amendment rights such as what happened in Canada and why tens of thousands every day are confronting Bam-Bam and his cronies in these town hall meetings who are trying to sell their socialistic snake oil.

We didn't become the most powerful and influential nation in the world by bowing to the wishes of a government. I'm confident it won't happen this time and what we will actually end up with is a significantly watered down plan which addresses the mere 6-8 million folks who do not have medical insurance for valid reasons. And, perhaps the opening of the interstate commerce for madical insurance companies to compete outside of state boundaries might be an interesting addition. IMO,if you allow medical insurance componies' to compete nationally across all state lines,much of the cost problems will be corrected as will the pre-existing condition's issue.

Just assist the less than 10 million who truly can't afford it instead of over-hauling a system in place for over 300 million citizens. That's akin to burning down a entire home to kill one rat.

We already have that here, it's called MEDICAID. Bottom line, writing a check for 30B instead of three TRILLION makes a lot more sense and those of us who can afford decent health care don't have to wait forever to get decent care and with the doctor WE CHOOSE.

Regardless read this: How to Fix healthcare I mean REALLY read it, then get back to me.

jorge

Isaac and Jorge,
By not answering my question directly I'm assuming that neither of you have lived here nor had direct experience with the Canadian system. It's my turn to tell Isaac that he doesn't know J. S. about our medical care.

You can evaluate, criticize, and seek options for your system - and should - but don't trash what you don't know about. That said, I hope that the US finds a good, workable solution for its citizens.

Regarding the comment about getting tired of BCB's liberal rants, let me remind you that this post was started by an American, who most likely knows very little about our system and was just copying and posting an article.

Not really paying attention,are you? There are a few here who lived and experienced health care in both places who have voiced their opinions which,by the way, vary greatly from yours. Further,to think one has to actuaally live someplace to obtain knowledge as to how a particular system works is rather silly,don't you think?

I've not tried a case in a Canadian courtroom either but I know how their laws work. Which, by the way, are far more organized and efficient than your medical system.

Isaac, it seems we have much the same horse but of a different color. The powerful medical insurance sector has placed itself in the role of dictating who and what it will insure. I don't see that the majority has that much of a choice. If they had that choice I doubt there would be restrictive plans such as PPOs and the dreaded HMOs.

Believe it all comes down to the fact that the medical insurance sector will not insure the sick and the gov does.

Fine John, but when the president of your Medical Assoc says your system is AFU and what I READ, it's pretty obvious. Did you read the link or just blow it off? jorge

Bob. Canada never had any second amendment rights. As a matter of fact, we never had a constitution until the mid 1980's, IIRC. Our gun laws ARE draconian, that's a given. We're working on getting that fixed. Too many years of a too liberal government hurt us in more ways than that, and now we are fighting the uphill battle of a minority conservative government. Tough go. Even our forms of government are different. We speak the same language -- more or less -- , and our unit of currency is called the same thing, but that is where the similarities end. The USA broke from England, and we never did until just recently.

IF I lived in the USA, I would be a patriot. I don't. I live in Canada, and so I am a Canadian patriot.

Typically, over the years, well since we burned your white house back in the 19th century, we have enjoyed pretty good foreign relations with the USA -- good neighbours. But Canada really IS a foreign country to you fellows, and the USA is a foreign country to us. We're different, so we're not the same.

But I defend your right to have whatever system of government, or health care or 2nd amendment stuff that you can get through. Sadly, we have fallen behind in some areas, or maybe never started on the same page in some areas. I'm still living in a good country, and so are you -- DIFFERENT countries.

Dr. Doink is nothing more than a union spokesperson, and her comments need to be seen from that perspective.

I haven't read your article yet, but I will. I'm in the middle of moving - been packing the house for four days now and am under the gun to get 'er done before the trucks come.

Second, Jorge, my main point is similar to your response earlier re: those who criticize the US. This thread was started by an American, and I bristle when someone starts a thread for no other reason than to poke at their northern neighbour.