Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers Guide rifle and Moose, which bullet?

That 405 Remington is nowhere near as tough as a Lyman 457193 cast at 20-1 lead/tin. I used to dig the Remington jackets and shards out of the side of a hill and pick up perfect mushrooms of the 457193. It didn't take me all that long to figure out which bullet held up better.

The 457193 is an awesome bullet and really works wonders at 1250 to 1300fps. You don't need to drive it faster to make it work.

I've yet to shoot a moose with this load, but it's what I loaded for deer in bear country.

I use the 350gr Speer hot-cor bullets over a stiff load of IMR3031 or SR4759. This bullet is designed for the 458 and the cannelure is in the wrong place for correct OAL in a lever action. I had to shorten the brass to be able to crimp and not lock up my Marlin.

Alaska Bullet Works 405 grain Kodiak bonded bullet. It WILL stay together. Great bullet, good expansion and penetration.

That 300 grain Nosler is a stout bullet. No problem with it on a moose. I've seen pictures on the Marlin Forum where it took down Buffalo. DRT

525gn Beartooth Piledriver, 40.5gns RL-7 gets me 1751 fps out of a 26" Marlin cowboy, and shoots in 2" @ 50 off sticks thru a lyman 66 receiver sight. Should punch thru a moose @ any angle....Good Luck

I like the Koolaid............. I still have a few boxes of JayBok Youngs stuff in the closet. Someday I'll have another 45-70 to Stoke with them. I've owned 2 guide guns and a Ruger #1, When I do it again it will be a 1895 Cowboy with the BBL shortened to 20" Wearing a Simms on the buttstock.
Mark, Please post pics of your moose!
Tom

The Remington 405 is not one of the premiums which are available. Neither is it overall better or worse than either of the suitable Hornadys.



It does have more integrity than some give it credit for. This is the skull of a moose - the back portion- from which I pulled this 405 which was used to dispatch the animal.

Never shot a moose, but have shot a whitetail doe with a 405 HCGC at about 1800 fps. 90 yard shot, double lung top of the heart. She ran about 60 yards but dang near couldn't find her because of the thickness of the woods and she didn't bleed much.

If you go with a hardcast aim to break shoulders; they just whistle through. Bet a moose wouldn't offer much more resistance.

Had a 300 grain Federal factory load come unglued in another doe, core separated, everything snagged in hide on off side. 35 yard shot.

Were I to choose a .45/70 GG to shoot a moose I'd go with Elmer Keith's load: 405 Remington SP/ 53grs. 3031.

I'd use .425 gr. Beartooth Piledriver jr.'s. over some H-322.

Should do just about anything in the proper range and placement.

I think that they will work well although FWIW Brian Pierce wrote some time ago that they won't begin to expand much under 1900 fps in an article on the 45-70.

I'm going to take a cow bison in Dec and am going to use a 405-gr Laser Cast just because I have them. Load will be out of a GG and about 1800 fps out of the muzzle with H4895.

Good luck Dober!

I am not a reloader...I used 350 grain Buffalo Bore ammo. Dropped my Alaskan bull IN HIS TRACKS. What a thumper!

Dober,

If you are goingto use the 350 gr Hornady, use the flat points -- they're a tougher bullet than the RN.

Mark

I use the 400 gr. Speer from deer to elk. No recovered bullets to show off just big holes and dead critters. I load IMR 3031, but cant recall the charge. Its loaded down a bit, but has never failed me. I think I chronyed it around 1750 fps. If you want the data send me a PM and I'll look tonight when I get home.

Joseph

Last week I shot a cow elk at 35yds with the Hornady LeveRevolution load. One shot/one dead elk But that bullet just about exploded on impact. I shot her right behind the shoulder the bullet broke 4 ribs going in and ended up lodged in the hide in front of her far hip. Ribs and back side of shoulder were severely blood shot. I found copper jacket pieces in the shoulder and bullet weight was about 1/2 of original. These shot super well but I think I'll be shooting a Cast Performance 405 hard-cast next year.

I think it's a wonderful moose cartridge. If we had not invented buffalo, they would have designed a 45-70 anyway for moose. I've not taken moose with my guide gun, but it's a fine chambering for tossing out 400+ grain slugs. A 350 to 400 grain pill going anywhere between 1,230 (Rem factory 405's) to 1,800 fps (405 grain hand loads) should put a real thumping on them. Still, unless one breaks bones, don't expect a bang/flop given the mass of a moose. If one starts hopping up velocity with 400+ grain slugs though, expect a little more punishment on the back end. Factory rounds were a cinch off the bench. The speedier handloads get ones attention. Both are suprisingly accurate. Presently, I'm running 55 grains of H4895 behind Rem 405 grain slugs. From memory, it's doing about 1,750 fps. That load came from an excellent Hand Loader (August 2007) article that was focused strictly on the Marlin chambering. It carried pages of loads and pressure data, and can still be had with a phone call and about $10.

I'd not worry too much about what brand of slug one uses. Four hundred grains of anything in a compact package is going to hurt.

I was hoping to use mine on elk this season in dark timber, but the day I scored, I was in cross canyon country with a whizzum 30 caliber. Good luck, 1Minute

The Hornady 350 RN was made for the 458 Win Mag as was the Speer 350 FP and they do not open much below 1600 fps while bullets made for the 45-70 and 450 Marlin open at a much lower velocity as does the 350 North Fork and 350 Swift A-Frame(Made for the 450/45-70 velocities).The 350 Hornady Flat point was made for the 450 Marlin(Not the 45-70) and has a different nose design for the different throat which causes higher intermediate pressures used in the 45-70 but maxed out,it does not.

There are alot of 458 Win mag bullets being used in the 45-70 and people complain they don't expand.I wonder why at moderate impact speeds?The 350 Woodleigh RN and 400 Swift A-Frame,sometimes used in the 45-70, were also made for the 458 Win mag.

As far as the Remington 405 on Elk..I doubt there is one person here with the experience of this bullet on large game like Elk that even comes close to what Randy Garrett(Garrett cartridges) and Tim Sundles(Buffalo Bore) has seen with this bullet and there customers.Neither recommends it for Elk.



Jayco

I have to wonder why there is so much emphasis put on velocity?? Load an expanding 400-405 grain bullet to 1400-1500 fps and it will kill like a lightning bolt. Useable range?? Farther than most would believe. Just have to have sights that have the adjustment. The 45-70 was one of the buffalo stompers of the 19th century. It did NOT get less lethal in 136 years.

FWIW, both of the Hornady 350s are designed for exactly the same working speeds. Also, both come apart to the same degree as the Remington bullet when fired into similar materials. The Woodleigh 350 was designed for impact speeds of 1800-2100 fps in the 450 BPE. (The Woodleigh 405 [for 45-70] was designed for impacts of 1700-2000 fps.) Both are soft, but bonded.

Harder cored bullets include the 350 Speer in C&Cs and the 350 Swift in the pricier stuff.

Very much agree with you. I use a 425 grain cast flat point driven at 1550-1600 fps, and I have yet to find a critter that can stop it, at any angle. And it doesn't kick me out from under my hat...

Howdy there Klik

I don't know where you get your info,but the 350 FP did not exist before the introduction of the 450 Marlin.It was made just for the 450 Marlin,not the 45-70 and if you have some you can see the different nose design it has over other 45-70 bullets..

You will never see the Flat Point in any factory .458 Win Mag ammo like you see the Round Nose.If so,point it out to this poor old Idaho hillbilly.

CP Cartridges 458 Win Mag load.



Happy Thanksgiving,Mark!

Jayco