Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Looking for home defense pistol, Glock???

Back in 1980 I took the twenty hour NRA program, taught to me privately by an NRA certified instructor, a retired deputy sheriff. I guess the first ten hours was the NRA Basic Pistol Course ("pistol" loosely defined, I suppose, since revolvers were covered too). The second ten hours I believe the instructor called "Defensive Handgun." I took one hour per day, five days per week, for four weeks, all private, and all at the town range using only his handguns. It was excellent. That was my foundation I voluntarily put myself through (at $20.00 per hour) before purchasing my first handgun, right after getting my license. After that, I was a regular at the range, drilling all the skills he taught me. Been an avid shooter, and concealed weapon carrier, ever since.

That would have been correct except I belive the original course was called "Personal Protection" not Defensive Handgun. It changed to Personal Protection in the Home in the late 1990s. They now also have Personal Protection Outside the Home as well..16 hour two-three day course.

..so you did it as right as it gets...I guess my question is why would you not advise others to do the same?

Bob

I would advise others to do the same. I simply maintain that 80% of the advantage from having a gun is achieved simply by 1) having it with you ready to bring into action, 2) understanding its basic operation, and 3) being mentally prepared to use it when needed. That doesn't necessarily require a formal twenty hour course. It would help, but the stats on civilian uses of firearms in defense of themselves from violent crime demonstrates that the courses I took (and you teach) are not strictly necessary to enjoy the vast majority of the advantage achievable from having a firearm.

Get the Glock. The 19 is a joy to shoot. It will probably fit her hand just fine--unless her hands are really small.

Go to wall mart and buy some white box winchester 9mm @ $20 per hundred.

Practice at 7 to 10 yards (how long is your house?).

Practice picking up your gun from a table (night stand simulation)--point and shoot.

You want to practice dobule or tripple taps.

If you can tripple tap in an 8" pie plate--you can neutralize most intruders.

When you can tripple tap in a 4" circle your're there.

The conversation always gets lost in egos. Some who advocate the revolver, and have a personal distaste for the Glock tell you, "if you get Glock--buy a 22 conversion kit so you can practise." That's condesending crap. As if you don't need to practise with a revolver.

Practice with ammo that simulates what you plan use for home defense.

As too the lazer. That is your call. I think that a blinding light in the face of an intruder will buy you more advantage to get a shot off than the lazer. It' hard for an intruder to attact with his arms and hands in his face and covering his eyes.

I shoot my Glock better than any of my revolvers. The trigger is not an issue at all. It might have something to do with the disperportionate time I have behind it.

To quote Hawkeye, "I simply maintain that 80% of the advantage from having a gun is achieved simply by 1) having it with you ready to bring into action, 2) understanding its basic operation, and 3) being mentally prepared to use it when needed."

All of his posts could have been reduced to those simple statements (number 3 is probably the hardest--until you've been in that sutuation who can tell how you will react). They apply to what ever weapon you chose.

Then practice in a way that simulates what you may incounter "in your home." Slow fire at the 25 yard line will not be your best bet.

Just my two cent worth.

GB

There is one flaw in your thinking.. Because you did it "right" you have no clue how "clueless" the untrained are. The manual with your gun, if you even get one when it is used, will give you the basic operation (#2) but little to nothing on how to bring the firearm into action quickly (#1) and ABSOLUTELY nothing on on mental preparedness (#3).

Regardless of what you do, motorcycling, shooting, SCUBA diving..until you teach that skill you have no understanding how clueless people taking up a new skill are.

As far as the stats go...there are no accurate stats because in many cases the use of a firearm in personal defense isn't even reported because no shots are fired. And then go talk to the untrained un-mentally prepared people who did shoot or kill someone like I have and you will see what lack of training and mindset costs these people.

This was posted over on one of the other forums..it is from one of my students who took BP, PPITH and did some followup work. Her older sister did so before her as had their father. Do you think the average "untrained" would have survived...

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This woman had some problems with a nutzo ex-boyfriend about 10 years ago so her father, who was one of my students, sent her to take a NRA Personal Protection I was CI for. She also did some 1/1 followup and shoots regularly with her dad... It just paid off...



Hi Bob,
I've been meaning to get in touch with you, but things have been a little crazy around here.
Three weeks ago this coming Monday I was attacked at my apartment. The guy came up from behind me, covered my mouth and put a knife to my throat. He pushed me into my apt and knocked me face down on my kitchen floor. He then preceded to wrap my eyes and mouth in duct tape... He then flipped me over and ducked tape my hands in front of me (thank god.) I fought as hard as I could, but I was no match to this [bleep]. He pulled my pants part way down and gave me a good hit in the gut... at this point he GOT OFF OF ME!! I think he got up to close the door, from what I could hear.With out even thinking about it I was able to get to my ankle holster, pulled my 38, and fired!! I didn't know if I hit him till the next day, which unfortunately I didn't, But it scared that bastard away. I got to my feet and with just barely being able to see ( I could get the duct tape off) I made to my neighbor who cut me loose.
I just want to tell you because between the training I received from my dad AND YOU I was able to save myself. After a few days of trying to calm down I thought of you and knew you'd be proud of me. My nerves are still raw, so I'm staying at dads until XXXXX returns from his tour in 39 days.
So thank you Bob!!! I hope you're proud of me.
Happy New Year!!

Love,
XXXXXXXXX


A gun in the pocketbook would have done her little good... She carries 24/7 in and out of the house and has a survivors mindset....do you?

Bob Makowski

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As to the little old lady with the .38...I have seen the same stories but do not remember any where the BG was also armed with a gun... Usually it was a piss-in-his-pants burglar who got caught by granny...

Bob

Excellent post. I think this type of traing is more important than the type of weapon you choose.

GB

Unless part of your training was taping her up, pulling her pants down, and punching her in the gut, I'm not seeing the relevance of training in this event, but maybe that's just me.

You piss off a person with a gun, they're apt to use it. That she did, and good for her.

You make a good point. She was certainly better off with the ankle holster than carrying in the purse, and if she picked that up due to your training, it was certainly your training that saved her. It still doesn't contradict what I said, though, since that situation likely falls in the narrow ends of the normal curve for armed civilian encounters with bad guys. In her specific case, though, your training made a huge difference for her. I have no problem agreeing with you on that.

...you are correct...you are not seeing. This girl was trained and as such she had the knowledge, skills and attitude to adapt to her situation, stay calm, look for the opening and act. She was prepared mentally and equipmant wise...

Bob

I can only take credit for training her how to shoot and how to think offensively. The ankle holster was her idea and I had no clue that is how she had decided to carry. Since the time I trained her I would only run into her at the club once or twice a year practicing with her dad. The last time was maybe 5 months before the attack.

As to this kind of attack being rare..I worked no less that 5 like this over the years especially when I worked in Dallas. You just don't hear about them.

Bob

ps...I didn't change her original letter to me and there is one word left out, she could "not" get the duct tape off her eyes...

Kev..,

I've seen several references to Glock .22 coversion units but have never seen an ad for them. Who makes them?

O

Advantage Arms makes the best one...Ceinder also does but the fixed sights are machined into the slide and are not adjustable.

Bob

Here's what I do see; somebody with something to sell, who's convinced himself that absolutely everyone has to buy it.

..sorry...but all my lessons are "FREE". It not only costs me money to put on a PPITH Course but it does the other 20 NRA Certified Instructors who help put on the courses at Major Waldrons Sportsmens Association. www.majorwaldron.com The $60.00 fee for the class goes to the club to put on the course. After expenses we make maybe $20.00 per student to keep the club going. The instructors, some of them living almost 100 miles away, pay for the privilage of helping new shooters lean to do what all these instructors love to do...shoot.

If you bother to go over to the website and click on course, click on Tactical Practice/Survivor Series. I have been putting that on since 1991 to keep peoples tactical shooting skills sharp. The cost $5.00 for club mambers and $7.00 for non-members...all money goes to the club for targets, heat, lights and new backers for the indoor range.. It costs me a gallon of diesel fuel round trip to the range..

You want 1/1 lessons...costs you NOTHING. Most people buy me lunch.

Don't believe me...check with Campfire members RGS or Firearms44. Firearms44 joined MWs this year and helped out on his first Basic Pistol class this last two weekends..he paid for that privilage.

So exactly what am I selling... What I am trying to do is keep people alive and out of trouble.

Bob Makowski

Wow! I got charged $20.00 per hour, and that was in 1980 dollars.

I saw a guy at the gun show last week....$50.00 an hour for 1/1 and $75.00 for 1/2.... I don't have a lot of money...but I have a lot of friends...

Bob

RJM..,

Thanks. Just bought a G20, first Glock. The fact that they are so modular was very appealing. Just started checking around for accessories but had never seen a .22 conversion anywhere. Will check out Advantage Arms.

O

You can take what I said literally, or you can take it figuratively, one way or the other, it applies.

But I don't think you're really paying attention to the other side of the discussion, so I won't waste either of our's time..

Ceiner makes a good conversion unit, but the man is a first class arse.

Just some random thoughts regarding Rather's first post. Glock makes a good simple to use pistol and Blachawk makes a good simple to use holster that protects the trigger. The 9mm is a reasonable self defense round, with proper ammo, and easy for a woman to shoot. Seems like a good over all solution to part of the problem.

The first thought always seems to be a handgun, but there are other factors to consider when home invasion is the topic. A good shotgun. A M37 tench gun under the bed in my case. Deadlock bolts on every door. My front door has an electronic keypad, so a 'bump key' won't work.

But, in my view, the biggest deterent to home invasion is a BIG DOG. I'd rather have a $500 Rott than a $5000 buglar alarm. Most scurvey necks don't like dealing with a dog. Even SWAT & SOG teams have a guy dedicated to taking out the guard dog.

Rotts and Dobes have gotten the rap as being 'assualt dogs' and insurance companies sometimes will not insure you if you own one. After my last Rott I gave it thought and came up with a good solution. The original junk yard dog. An Airedale.
Cute,fuzzy,lighting fast and, with a mouth full of teeth, fearless in a fight. All 70 pounds of her sleeps at the foot of my bed. She can hear a bug smile in the dark at 100yds. Enough warning to wake up and get armed.

O