Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire This should make some people here proud

ringworm----the best part of that video was the hot platinum blond at the end....thanks.

I think Paganism, Witchcraft, Wicca, Druidism, etc. should be taught in public schools, after all fair is fair.

In fairness it ain't about "teaching it" <religion> in schools...it's about allowing opposing theories to have an equally correct answer.

Thanks Ringworm.

This type of Christianity isn't any different than Islam. True these kids haven't strapped on bombs yet but give them time and they will.

It's falling on deaf ears........

Two idiots that hate religion won't understand the difference between opening your mind to possiblities and jamming religion down their throat.

They don't mind the systematic indoctrination of children into the communist manifesto, but they cringe at the thought of kids growing up to respect their parents, teachers, and not commiting crime.

They can't wrap their mind around the fact that many people who don't stand up and preach to them, give to those in need, both in monies, as well as food and clothing. They can't fathom that there are millions of people who help each other each and every day in their times of need, being bound simply by the common thread in the church.

I'd sure hate to end up on my death bed after years of following the likes of Tod and Jeff and realize that I had made a terrible mistake, but was too late to fix it.....
Must be hell being that right....(pun there)

Now I'm gonna let you boys have at it....I's done

Regardless or your religious beliefs, the Christian way of life is a good way to live your life.

If everyone, Christian or non Christian lived a Christian lifestye, there would be a lot less killing, rapes, murders, and any crime someone would care to describe.

To me, it would be nice to live in a crime free sociaty, where there was no need for body guards, concealed carry, locks and anti-theft devices.

As long as atheists have their way, in schools, governments, and everywhere else, it is not going to be that way. It is going to continue the way it is going when atheists gained a foot hold back in the 50s and 60s.

What's your post got to do with allowing kids to use creation to answer questions and getting a good grade for it.

I know Tod personally and he is a good man who does a lot of what you described. Jeff probably does too. I'm working at something that is based on goodness of heart. Why is it assumed that only Christians are capable of doing good works, that atheists, agnostics, Pagans, etc. are incapable of doing good works or have ethics. Talk about narrow mindedness.

But... but...

First of all, Christianity isn't a "theory".

Second, "equally correct answers"...?!

Tod, you are the one with a religious skool background. Please list some of the "equally correct answers" that are in the Bible. I would expect, there are any number of things in there contrary to science that are, apparantly, equally correct.

bump

If Christians actually lived a Christian way of life it would be great. I know more non-Christians who follow the precepts of Christianity as taught by Jesus. Barack and his wife are about the only ones on this board I can think of who are out there 'walking the walk' but I sure there are others.

If you approach Jesus' teachings as a moral philosophy, there is much to recommend it. Jefferson certainly thought so, as he prepared a version of the Bible without the miracles and other mummery and focused on the moral teachings (google Jefferson Bible).

But many Christians, particularly well represented right here are some of the most hateful, hypocritical and mean spirited people I have ever heard. Their morality certainly seems at odds with the spiritual leader the claim to try and emulate.

I've heard people posting in this thread talk about torturing others, killing those who don;t believe in their political philosophy and even advocating genocide. All of which seem to fly directly in the face of the teaching of Jesus.

Love you enemy. Feed the hungry. Clothe the naked. Help the poor. Reject materialism.

As far as atheism, it means only one thing - lack in the belief in a god. That is it and noting more. It doesn't mean rejecting moral precepts, doing evil whenever possible.

The difference between a Christian and an atheist is that the atheist believes in one fewer god than the Christian. Christians don't believe Wotan, or Diana or Ahuru-mazda or Baal. We just take it one step further.

Christianity is no different than all the other 'revealed' religions that Christians claim as false, except that Christians believe it. Their Bible is right, and all the other holy books are wrong. Why Because the bible says so.

Ironic, no?

As for those who make the argument of Pascal's wager, think about this. What if you Christians are wrong and Islam or some other religion is the right one.

What you call opening someone's mind I call telling fairy tales. As Ringworm noted, God is Santa Claus for adults. How about opening you mind to Islam? Or Buddhism? Or Asatru. Or Paganism?



Ah, the predictable ad hominem attack, favorite of the cornered Xian. Call the non-believer a communist, accuse them of evil. Don't discuss the issue at hand.

I've raised my children to respect there parents and others. I even teach them to respect people of other religions, however nutty they may be. I've reaised them to be ethical.

BTW, you never responded to my comment about why there are so few atheists in prison, versus Christians. Atheists make up 10-15% of the US population, but only about 2% of those in prison. Doesn't Christianity make you more likely to be good? I guess not. Your argument fails in the face of real world data.



I'm sure there are. But they seems to be a small minority of the religious. And you need to accept the fact that there are non-Christians including atheists who also help others. They don't even do it for some possible reward after death or because their holy book tells them to. They do it because it is the right thing to do.



What happens if you are wrong? What if you are worshipping the wrong god? What if the Muslims have it right.

Further, I'd like to suggest that the Christians - that is the 'faith alone' types - are the ones with no motivation to be good people. They believe that they are saved by faith alone, so there's really no need to actually do good. Whereas the non-believer has to measure their life by what they do in the near and now. And their legacy is with those that remain after they are gone.

Your characterizations of Christians is about as naively academic as categorizing bugs in a journal.

I thought you indicated you were done with the thread? You must have edited your post.

Anyway....

No, that was quoting Matt.

I'd say my characterizations of Christians was as accurate as Matt's characterizations of Atheists.

Atheism- a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity


That's the Merriam-Webster definition of "atheism".


That's why your "byline" is completely wrong. "Atheism" has become a "religion" in our society. It has become a firm belief (doctrine) that there is no God. A firm denial of his existence.

I consider myself an agnostic some days, a Deist on others. I refrain from running around denying God's existence completely. I can honestly say "I don't know". If he does exist. If he does, I follow the Deist approach which seems to think he has more of a "hands off" approach to how we live our lives here on Earth.

Tod, I have a hard time giving a darn about what you believe in your numerous anti-religious screeds here when you won't even accept the "accepted" meaning of "atheism" (as noted above), a DENIAL of the existence of God, not merely a LACK of belief in God (as you say).

First off, the idea that for one to believe the Bible, one must reject science is a great deception. It is an equal deception that to accept science one must reject the Bible. Those commonly held ideas make about as much sense as assuming because you know how to rebuild an engine you can't debate philosophy.

The Bible explains WHY we are here and what we should do. It makes no attempt to provide a detailed step-by-step account of HOW God created the earth. Those that attempt to do so are rejecting the principles of the Literal Method of Biblical Interpretation, and are reading into the text what they want to see to support their own view.

You can say the same thing about evolutionists who try to use evolution as proof that there is no God. You have to speculate WELL beyond the science to establish an opinion about God from the Theory of Evolution.



Actually a study of ancient religions shows otherwise. When many were worshipping trees and dirt and animals, and consider gods came from the earth and had human failings and weaknesses; the Gensis account describes a God that is above all else, creator of all, with no human failings or weaknesses. That just isn't the kind of diety people make up.

However, I am for allowing peaceful and respectful expression of all points of view. I firmly believe that Chriatianity bests all other philosophies and is a culmination of all truth. I am willing to let Christianity compete in the realm of ideas.

The problem is the anti-Christians know how powerful and effective Christianity is, so they are doing everything they can tp prevent it from even being heard, much less give it a fair hearing. I guess that is a typical tactic of chicken-schitts with little intellectual vigor................

One last thing. I am sick ond tired of non-Christians trying to tell Christians how the should behave and what the Bible says. That is as stupid as an anti-hunter trying tell an experienced elk hunter how to harvest a trophy elk....................

I am all for letting people make up their own minds about religion. I am not in favor of indoctrinating children in school using public funds. I wonder how many Christians there would be if they weren't raised in the faith before they were even able to think critically

As far as Christians in general, I admit that I am painting with a very wide brush. The reality is that I am addressing a distinct subset of literalist, anti-science, anti-reason religious zealots

Before I left the church, I was able to accept the idea of religion as a spiritual pursuit, existing in a different realm as science. The Thomistic proofs seems compelling for an uncaused causer. But that is very different from a revealed God, with miracles, intervention, ritual, etc. This is generally called Deism, and was popular with the Founding Fathers.

However I eventually recognized that this god is nothing more than the 'god of the gaps', a simple explanation of the unexplainable. A comfort god to fill in the unknown. Also, the acceptance of religion has a strong social aspect. To question faith or religion, let alone reject it is to be socially outcast. For many it is not an easy path.

Given what we know with the tools we have, I would only argue that there probably isn't a god. certainly there is no evidence to prove the existence of the biblical god, who even if he did exist is a capricious and downright evil being. But it is impossible to prove that a god or gods does not exist.

As far as Christianity have some unique perspective on the nature of God, I invite you to read Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth. You'll find some pretty compelling evidence that there is nothing unique about Christianity, and indeed that much of it is borrowed whole cloth from other religions.

http://www.pocm.info/

Of course it's powerful. All you have to do is believe (accept Jesus as your personal savior), and you will go to heaven after you die. Do next to nothing and live forever with Jesus. What's not to like?

Now if you had to live a particular kind of life, practice rituals and do certain works, that is to have to earn you way into heaven though positive action, including things that were hard or unpleasant, I think you'd find Christianity a lot less popular.

Imagine how popular Christianity would be if you actually had to live like a monk or nun, for example, in order to be saved.

I'm an evolutionist who believes in a Deity. There is definitely one of us out here.

The problem nowadays is the education system attempts to indoctrinate our children against Christianity. I would fully support an objective education system free from emotional bias for or against any belief system.



The same number that are Christians now.



I hate those guys too....................



Yes, the revealed God is very different than the kind of diety humans usually make up.



A "god of the gaps" is a human invention, and is not different that the gods ancient peoples made up to try and explain things. You are right to reject such a god. The only God worth serving is one that is the ultimate creator of time and existence; a God who exists both inside of and outside of time and existence. A God not worried about explaining Himself or what he does to any of us. A God that requies accountability to Him. A God that by His very nature is more worthy of worship and praise than we can hope to comprehend. This is the God I know and worship, and I'm sorry you missed Him. However don't confuse the imitation of god you rightly rejected with the real deal.




All the real Christians I know frequently ask the hard questions about their beliefs, and could care less about what is socially acceptable. It is much much easier to give into the pressure of rejecting real Christianity than it is to live it.



The problem is, we don't really know what we think we know, nor can we. We cannot come close to making an evaluation using our limited scientific tools as to the existence of God. The only way to answer that question, and it is purposely this way, is to develop a personal relationship with God.

In the same vein, we are simply not equipped to pass judgment on Ultimate Being both inside of and outside of time and existence. We cannot even comprehend such a Being, much less evaluate His actions.

We cannot scientifically prove the existence of a God, nor can we convince someone else of the existence of a God. Miracles are not proof, because we can choose to define a miraculous occurance any way we want. We become convinced of the existence of God when we come too know Him personally. Since I know God personally, telling me He doesn't exists is as nonsensical as a coworker me my own wife doesn't exist just becasue he hasn't seen her.[/quote]




POCM misses the main point, which is not suprising. Christianity did not begin with Christ's appearance on earth. The ancient peoples with whom God interacted existed several thousand years before Christ became a man, well before religions POCM cits as being influential to Christianity. In fcat, it was most likely the other way around.

And the idea that sharing some common elements with other ancient belief systems somehow makes Christianity not unique reflects an unthinking, but sadly common, view of Christianity. Some think the Bible teaches that all truth is ONLY found in Christianity. They consider that either Christianity is right and everything else is wrong, or everything else is right and the Christianty is wrong. I much prefer CS Lewis' approach to the issue.

Lewis saw all belief systems as being on a continuim, starting with paganism (which is not the formalized paganism Tim believes in) and culminating in Christianity. Informal paganism contains some truth, and each step along the continuim finds more and more truth until truth culminates in Christianity. As such, there is bound to be some truth found in every belief system.