Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles What is the Average Accuracy of Modern Rifles?

The current thread about the accuracy of most hunters nowadays made me think. Even the best shooters cannot shoot 1-inch groups if their rifles are not capable of that degree of accuracy. Some of my rifles absolutely are capable of MOA, while others absolutely are not, on a consistent basis. Do you think that 50% of rifles made today have out-of-the box accuracy capable of MOA, with the right ammo? I know my Savage rifles do.

Yes with the right ammo. Each barrel is "tuned" a little differently from the manufacturer, sort of at random, i.e., they don't do any "tuning," per se. They just come out "tuned" in a particular way, i.e., they resonate differently depending on the bullet's weight and velocity, resulting in differential accuracy based on the manipulation of those two factors, in essence, "tuning in" to the barrel's natural resonance frequency. The objective, therefore, is either to have a device that permits the tuning of the barrel for each and every round you choose (They can be installed on the muzzle, and you can "dial in" to the ideal resonance frequency for each and every round with a little experimentation) or, rather than tuning the barrel, zero in on the barrel's natural resonance by "tuning" the ammo selection for the barrel, i.e., experiment with loads of various bullet weights and powder charges. Every barrel has its favorite combo of bullet weight and powder charge (which causes the barrel to resonate just right for maximum accuracy), and if you go to the trouble of finding it on each and every modern manufactured barrel (assuming no major defects and at least average quality), you could probably get sub-MOA on any of them.

Don't know but would guess it is signficantly better than 30 or even 20 years ago.

Jm.

Don't know what everyone else has experienced but for me it has been like this

Remington 50%
Sako 100%
Howa 100%
Browning 0% only bought 1 never again
Kimber 100% I guess I have been lucky
Winchester 70%
CZ 100%
Ruger 80% only one that did not shoot was one without the tang saftey
Savage 70% havn't shot any new stuff from these guys

All of these have been with tuned handload I would think that if I only had factory ammo to choose from the rates would be a lot lower because some of the rifle required a lot of load development to get to shoot right.

Yes I feel 50% of the BOLT ACTIONS out-of-the-box probably are capable of MOA or very close to it.

A tune up of floating the barrel, bedding the action, bedding the mounts, and a trigger job and I am feeling the number of BOLT ACTIONS would increase to + 90% MOA capable.

Don't know about "modern" rifles, but I have 2 pre-64 Model 70's - a .30-06 as it came from the factory and a .300 Win Mag floated and bedded - that will both shoot well under MOA off the bench with their favorite factory loads.

What is your definition of moa accuracy? If your definition is that at one point in time that rifle has grouped a 3 shot group with the favored load into a ctc group of 1moa or less, I'd say that 80+% of factory bolt action rifles are capable of that level of acccuracy.

If however your saying a 5 shot group and that loading up 100 rounds of the magic load the gun will group that ammo ctc group after group 1moa or better, then a small percentage of factory bolt guns will achieve that level of acccuracy.

I hate to break some hearts here;but Layne Simpson did a good article comparing a pre 64 FW 270, a Classic 270 FW,and a new FN 270 FW with a variety of factory loads.The pre 64 had the smallest average groups of the three.......

Not surprised at all.

When you start talking about MOA accuracy, IMO, you're talking about 5 shot groups that CONSISTANTLY fall at 1 MOA or under. Time after time. Not some 3 shot fluke, never to happen again. Not like the fellow that was bragging about his rifle that would shoot an INCH at 200 yards. Come to find out, he was shooting three shots and what he really ment was a MOA --200 yards = 2 inches. There's a lot of difference between 3 shots and 5. And the folks that make the argument that you rarely shot at an animal more than 3 times, I say, I rarely shoot at an animal more than once so what's your point?

I doubt that few factory bolt rifles couldn't stand a little tuning as they come from the box but I believe there are more 1 MOA bolt rifles than there are 1 MOA shooters.

hawkeye: When my new FN M70 270 FW started shooting sub MOA right outta the box, I thought to myself...."Oh, this is good.It shoots just like my pre 64's!"

I can tell you for sure that your 0% for Brownings is incorrect.

You're gonna hear about a whole lot of examples of one in this thread. A guy owns a single xxx and he got lucky/unlucky and ergo, ALL xxx are POS'es or they are one hole shooting barn burners. It's kinda like cars.

Before I could answer, I'd have to know......do you mean MOA groups fired on the internet, or actually observed in "real life"?

I do believe that today's rifles are "generally" better bedded, tuned and accurate out-of-the-box that in earlier times. I also know that factory ammo is MUCH better as far as consistancy and accuracy. More shooters seem to be handloaders today and that can make a tremendous difference.

However when the average guy shoots, with witnesses present and no excuses allowed......very, very few can place 3 (much less 5) shots anywhere near a MOA group at 100 yards except by accident (yes, there are a lot of guys carrying targets with outstanding groups that are a once-in-a-lifetime accident). Most "good" shooters I see can't do much better that 1 1/2" groups, even when shooting a proven MOA rifle.

That may say more about shooters ability than rifle accuracy, but at the range I'd say MOA rifles are maybe 50%.

On the internet however.......EVERYONE seems to shoot only MOA or better groups (with every rifle they own). Maybe 10-15% will admit to shooting 1 1/2-2" groups so with that evidence, at least 85% of today's rifles must be capable of MOA (even at 600+ yards it seems).

The internet has been the best thing that ever happened to improve accuracy in all rifles.

Heh, yeah I've noticed that as well. :p

Many times I have stated that in my past experience factory rifles firing factory ammo into MOA groups has been extremely rare. Count them on one hand actually and have a finger or so left over. Curiously enough 3 of the 4 were magnums. Go figure.

Another curious thing happens when a rifle gives MOA accuracy with a subpar hunting bullet but so so accuracy from a good bullet. So many times a man tries to figure out how to make the subpar hunting bullet into a good hunting bullet by asking if it will work and then continue to ask till he gets the answer he wants. MOA accuracy is very important to a lot of folks. :p

Will

Oh really you shot the sorry excuse that browning sold me and tried to pass off as a hunting rifle and it shot MOA. Read the post it clearly states this is based off of MY expierence. I am sure that there are people out there who have brownings that shoot just fine and they probably love them. The reason that I only bought one is because the good people at browning seemed to think that there was nothing wrong with a rifle that shot 5"+ groups at 100yds. After trying to deal with them on that issue and the responses I got I will never by one again.

Hmmm. If five shot groups are better than 3 shots groups, would 10 shot groups be even better? On a range session I tend to go with repetitive 3 shot groups. Five shots introduce more variables than I need for my purposes, especially in the heat of a Texas coastal summer. If I can get a couple of 3 shot groups at 100 yards and then shoot at least one at 200 that are sub MOA, center-to-center, I am happy. If I can get a particular rifle to do this on every range session (except for those occasional times when I just don't seem to be up to shooting very accurately, for whatever reason), I consider it capable of consistent sub-MOA three shot groups. This isn't done to improve hunting accuracy so much since there the first shot is the whole story most of the time, but to see what the rifle is capable of, practice shooting and operating each rifle, and improve my own confidence. My range shooting has improved as my rests have improved and my shot counts have risen. I am a decent offhand shot on game, pitiful on targets, I think because the vital areas of most game animals are larger than a bulls eye on a target. Not all my rifles shoot sub MOA at the range, and some are closer at 200 yards than at 100. I don't think, from reading lot's of O'Connor stories, that pre-64 Model 70's shot as well before the many improvements in ammunition and optics - advantages "modern" firearms take full advantage of - and certainly modern bedding techniques are a huge improvement.

I think I can make more than half of the rifles I have run into shoot MOA. That might require some work, like trigger, float the barrel, bed the action, properly torque and loctite the mounting screws/rings and work up a good load for that gun.

Can I take half the guns out of the box new, and run factory ammo through them and get MOA? Maybe with specific makes and models, but not across the board. It would be an interesting experiment though.

Texas: I think you are correct about the components. I used to see all manner of funky bedding systems utilized by old timers shooting pre 64's,an an attempt to get them to shoot.I've had a slew of older rifles,and generally they have shot very well....I have always suspected that it's the modern components that were responsible for this.

3 shot groups are OK for testing your scope Zero. But for final choices in selecting which load to use, a 5 shot group lets you see how consistent the load really is, 10 shots even better.