Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles What is the Average Accuracy of Modern Rifles?

I think Stray Dog has a good point.Sometimes, I have seen a 5-10 shot groups(especially with a few at long range),disclose mechanical problems not apparent with a 3 shot group.

Bob,
I agree with you about some of the older rifles being unusually accurate.
The first .270 I bought was a M700 ADL back in 1966. The first time I fired it was 3 shots touching with factory Norma boatails.

But that rifle was later stolen when I was living in some apartments, sob.

SD: Some of them got some hands-on coddling not apparent with some modern rifles.I think in many ways this might off-set the super manufacturing methods in use today,where precisely made components are somewhat sloppily assembled.

The reason I brought up 3 shot vs. 5 shot groups is so we would be discussing the same thing when we discuss "moa" rifles.

I can't think of any centerfire rifle I have that hasn't put 3 shots under 1" at 100 yds. But that's an entirely different thing than putting 5 shots at or under 1 moa day in, day out.

Here are two of the 3 groups I shot when working up loads in my 350 rem mag. The middle group w/ the 58 gr charge was ~ 1 1/4" ctc.





So, is this a sub moa rifle?

And yes, there are folks with mechanicaly sound rifles with good loads that can put 3 shots under 1 moa at 100 yds on demand. No, not every gun nor every shooter can achieve that.

458: Agreed as to the first statement.Also agreed as to the second; I am not one of those people either

I shot 300,400 and 500 yards this afternoon; I was pleased with some of it,and not so happy with the others

We all base are criteria and ideas of normality and averages on our own experiences. I can understand the guys that maybe once in their life have shot a 3 shot group under 1moa as highly doubting the claims of others that they regularly shoot sub moa. I still remember the first time I shot a sub moa group, I just might still have that target in the garage, I was pretty proud of it. Then I read about folks shooting better that, got into handloading, bought/traded/built other guns and found out what I could do. I seldom keep targets anymore. I'd rather work up a good combo and then shoot it to perfect my ability, time permitting, which hasn't happened much lately.

I can look at my son shooting his .243, maybe that's a better example of average accuracy. From a rest he can shoot ~2 moa, and that's not bad shooting. Last time at the range I loaded up some plinker rounds using up some 100 and 105 gr cup/core bullets another member at the campfire graceously gave him to hone his skills. I had some dummy rounds to set up seating depth, and had a bit of powder left that seemed like it would be suitable. As a course of action I wouldn't recomend just dumping powder and loading bullets, but I was familiar enough with the gun to get a good enough plinking load to use up the bullets.

We set up some clay pigeons on the 100 yd line and he attempted to blast him. He complained that the ammo wasn't very acccurate. So I shot a 3 shot group. I didn't measure the group but it was a triangular group somewhere in the 1 1/4" ctc size. More than adequate plinking ammo, but the POI was different than his hunting load. I noted that to him, he corrected his aim and proceded to turn the clay into dust.

The best that gun will do for 3 shot groups at 100 yds is in the 1/2" range. As I recall I used 5rd groups when working up loads, because I figured a .243 should shoot well enough that 3rd groups just wouldn't give me the resolution I was after. Which reminds me, I got him a couple boxes of v-max for his rifle and need to load them up so he can make some empties. I'd also like to see if I can coach him to shoot a sub moa group, he'd be pretty stoked. But he's pretty smart and would rather blast rocks and clays then try and print groups on paper.

458: He's a smart kid to get away from the bench and sandbags.....he won't kill much game from those things

If you're concerned about SUB MOA limit your purchases to Savage Tikka Sako and a VERY few others.

I don't know if I agree with only the brands above. I have bought a new Remington VTR and 5R in 308 which are real shooters. The VTR will shoot a 1/2 to 5/8 inch groups all day long. The first shot on a cold barrel is 3/8s low. It is straight out of a box without any mods shooting handloads. The 5R shoots 3/8 to 1/2 inch groups all day. I use my 5R for benchrest shooting and is loaded with a Night force 8-42x limiting the hunting side. I have shot 247 out of 250 with the 5R. Check benchrest.com for Austin Texas. My VTR groups are not good enough to do this but for a 7.5 lb hunting rifle it will do anything you want limited only by the caliber. The triangle barrel takes the heat from multiple shots a lot better than any of my Winchester skinny barrels. I do love my old Winchesters but that is another story. I have not bought any of the new Winchesters so I can't comment here but I do not keep rifles unless they shoot well.

I bought one of the first XR-100s in WV. In .223. I took it and some ammo for another rifle to a factory match. My agg ( 5 five shot groups) was .7xx and I won. That was out of the box, a good cleaning, sighting in, and to the range.
Once I got some Lapua brass and started shooting ammo tuned for that rifle, I did very well indeed. Those Sakos and Tikas and Savages --most accurate out of the box don't you know-- had to settle for second place. Although those rifles could shoot too. As I posted elsewhere, I think there are more MOA rifles than there are MOA shooters.

I wrote an article on this subject awhile back. It was basically an accuracy and funtion test of some of our newest rifles being produced today.

One was a high end model, the other a lower end one. If you care to read it click on the link and go to
Modern Bolt Guns-Do they Deliver?

JM.

JM: Good article;nice job.

And as we all know, the right load makes all the difference in the world.
I've only been reloading for a few years but can't imagine shooting factory loaded centerfire ammunition ever again.

Thanks Bob. It was fun to do.

Hi Sam,

I used factory ammo because that is what most folks use when hunting and is the only way to make a fair comparison.

I certainly agree that handloads can improve performance, but some of the factory stuff ain't too bad.

JM.

Oh yeah, I agree John. I was just speaking in general terms.

The right factory stuff can shoot great!

Excellent article Will, I enjoyed it very much. I'm not surprised at all with the outstanding accuracy you got out of that new X-Bolt, I don't own one at the present but I bought a new stainless synthetic model in 30.06 as soon as they came available and that thing was also extremely accurate with the several different factory loads I tried...................547.

Good article. For the fellow that wants to pull old trusty rusty out of the closet a couple of times a year and go kill something, the 770 and its Savage counter part are good buys, not the junque that die hard loonies say they are.

Very few factory rifles will consistently shoot MOA or better out of the box. I'd say something on the order of 15% of the factory bolt actions produced would be a good guess. What I've seen a lot is guys shooting ten or more 3 shot groups and having one that's under 1" at 100 yds and claiming that they have a MOA rifle. Sorry, that don't cut it. I once had a tang safety ruger 7mm mag that was lucky to group under 3" at 100 yds and I fired quite a few 1" groups with it, it's just the law of averages, sooner or later if you shoot enough groups you're going to get a tight one. It doesn't mean the rifle is capable of that EVERY time. A MOA rifle to me means that it will do it every time, not that it has shot a 1" group sometime in the past which I think is the criteria that most on the internet use.

I've owned and shot enough rifles to know that a true 1 MOA out of the box rifle is a rare animal indeed. I've also watched enough other's shoot to know that it's not a fluke that I'm not getting these rifles. Very rarely do I see a guy belly up to the bench and shoot consistent sub 1" groups unless he's a rifle loony who's done a good bit of work on his rifle and tuned his handloads.

In my experience most factory hunting rifles will shoot about 1.25-1.75 inches for three shots at 100 yards. By hunting rifles I mean those designed for big game with cartridges like the .270 on up.
The only rifles I ever owned that would shoot under an inch are Savages. Currently own a Savage .223 that will shoot under .5 and it hasnt been tweaked and I consider myself a terrible bench rest shooter.
Everyone has different needs but as long as my big bore (.338 or bigger) rifles group approximately 1.5-2 inches at the same spot day in day out that is all I need.

Met my fair share of people claiming .5 or under for 5 shots with a factory rifle but when I tag along to watch the shooting all of a sudden the shooter is having an "off" day

I am happy to take 3 round groups as a basis for evaluation on rifles with a standard barrel and would only worry about 5 round groups for those with a heavy barrel or varminet configuration.

Personally, I try to assess the average group size and only discount fliers I absolutely know were me and that I "called" prior to observing the group...

But when your standard sporter factory rifle produces groups like these, (plus a shade larger) on a regular and consistant basis, you have to be pleased..