nice picture. Looks like the 8 came first, and they didn't want anybody trying to shoot an 8 in a 7 chamber? So they made the 7 chamber (shoulder) shorter than an 8, so that an 8 would never chamber in a 7?
If you size '06 in an 8x57 die you'll have to remove the decapping assembly to get a properly trimable case in most instances....then resize with the decapping assembly in place afterwards to get the neck interior right. If you're going to do a lot of '06 to 8x57,you may be better off to by an 8x57 trim die.....makes the form/trim process much simpler and quicker,and you can literally do thousands with no wear on the die.
Wahoo, I also realize the 7mm is a tad shorter, but very little and by using your therory on that, consider the fact that many factory and custom chambers are too long for factory ammo by one degree or another, and they fireform to the specific chamber when fired. I am sure that most have noticed that..
That is the reason we set our reloading dies up on a once fired case by using a full length die and running it into the die a tad at a time until we get the fabled crush fit for bench rest, target and some use this for hunting and others go just a tad more for hunting as they feel dependability rates higher than the little bit of accuracy that may or may not be gained by a crush fit.
When you fireform a case with cornmeal and wax your once again pushing the shoulder forward as you must, that is why it is wise to point the gun up when fireforming so the primer will stay back as the shoulder goes forward, not to hold the powder in the back of the case as some think, the cornmeal or rice does that..The pressue of the powder will push the case back if pointed up.
I think it was Bob that said I probably used a control feed rifle and he is correct about that. That applied in each case I sighted btw such as the Africans as they were using milsurp Mausers. The fellow that shot the 270s in his 06 was also using a pre 64 Win. I was using Mausers and pre 64s as most know that is about all I shoot in bolt action big game rifles, with the one exception of my Sako L-461 in a 6x45..I also shoot some Remingtons in varmint calibers.
You always read that when looking at an old rifle, to have a gunsmith check it for safety. I've never thought about this this way but...how much headspace over the 'spec' is permissable? I've never fooled around with gauges and the only gun I've had with excess headspace was an old Mod 12.
When all the old military stuff was being sporterized back when, I'm sure there were a lot of examples of 'gunsmithing' that put the actions to the test. Probably not so much of a problem these days. People seem more careful. Bill
If you're not having fun; you're not doing it right!
Even today the old Win. M-94 and a few others will show some headspace on firing if you will look at the primers and see how much they back out...Dennis Olson told me most of them back out about .004 to as much as .005 and don't cause any problems in the weak 94 action. My 25-35 leaks about .002 or .003 every shot, (guessing)...
I post that for what its worth and I don't know the real answer to the question of how much is too much. I am sure it would depend on the action in that I think the Ruger No. 1 could take a lot more than a Win. 94 or any bolt action.
A freaking 7x57 is .093" shorter at a smaller diameter shoulder than the 8x57... Suggesting it is okay to shoot factory or military ammo in one is just another headshaker! Should they point them "up" also? Do not want to ruin the brass, you know!
Unreal! art
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Headspace is mis-understood by so many for so many reasons it isn't even funny...if you have to ask the question or can't understand the full ramifications of what you can and can't do as far as correcting headspace and what it really is, you need to do more studying...NOT ON THE WEB FORUMS...as all you will get is you more mis-information and wrong answers...you need to go to an authoritive source like SAAMI.
85% of all the people I ever talked to about headspace couldn't understand the simple concept of using a standard sizing die and Redding competition shell holders to "adjust and correct" headspace...or the concept of "Go, NoGo, Field and War" headspace gauges.
SAAMI headpace is a "standard" used by all signatories of the SAAMI convention and as signatories they pledge to stay within the parameters set by that convention...this means ammo and component producers, reamer makers, barrel makers..the whole shebang.
AND...just because it is "old military stuff" doesn't mean the headspace is out...but it does mean that...LIKE ANY USED WEAPON...the headspace and ALL THE REST OF THE WORKING PIECES AND PARTS need to be checked over it you are smart.
Many people miss the fact that manufacturing methods require a certain level of TOLERANCE built in to keep things in perspective...nothing is made to exact specs...and many people get "tolerance" and "headspace" mixed up in their minds and other places.
Many SAAMI specs I've come across doing my own "gunsmithing" runs to about 0.000" - 0.008" range...BUT...If you want to know the specific SAAMI spec for a specific cartridge...go to SAAMI or a qualified gunsmith...NOT THE WEB...if you want the correct information and not a bunch of "personal guestimation BS".
There are correct ways of fireforming cases and correct ways of making different size cases and calibers from other size cases and incorrect ways of doing the same...again you need to be sure of your source. P.O. ACKLEY's books have the correct way and that way has been repeated countless times over the years. This isn't rocket science...it just had a right and wrong way to go about doint it.
But before you start you need to understand...FULLY...the concept of headspace...what it is...how it is applied...and how you approach it with differenct receiver types.
I've made all kinds of cases for "standards" and wildcats from whatever I happen to have stuck away on the brass shelf...if I can do it...SAFELY...any one can...
THE question that remains is...HOW you identify a modified case and HOW you mark it so you don't breakout in azz***es and sh** all over youself and really mess up your day.
Certainly one way to get brass would be to collect as much .30-06 brass as you can, run them through a case tumbler, then carefully lube the top 1/3 of the case with a good case lubricant, then run the case into an adjusted 8x57 trim die, use a hacksaw to cut of the excess, then using a tray of tap water line up the cases base down and apply heat from a propane torch to anneal the necks, run them all through a full-length sizing die, trim to length, inside chamfer and then outside chamfer the case mouths, inspect carefully and then decide to get a life.
Call Midway.
Been there and done that. Back in the early 1970's it was tough getting components because everything was tied up in production for the Viet Nam War. 7x57 cases were just about about impossible to get and I had lots and lots of GI military .30-06 brass. It's a simple process really, but time consuming. There is really no need to go through all that when 8x57 cases are so easy to get.
You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
I have had an 8mm of some kind since '65. Good cartridge which doesn't get any respect. For some reason 8mm unprimed brass is much more expensive than more common calibers. This made forming a practical solution. A recent price check put 8mm brass twice as expensive as 06 brass. With 06 commonly available from hunters...it's everywhere shooters gather. 06 brass is the best starting point.
The process isn't complicated and there are several ways to do it, as has been posted.
I hope the late availability of Mausers brings more interest but american hunters aren't very interested in anything above 30 cal. 8mm was very popular in the 50's and 60's simply because the rifles were cheap, and not many had the extra cash to use the kind of rifles common to users of this forum. I knew more than a few successful hunters who did nothing more than clean and strip excessive hardware off a '98 cutting down the forend some, then head to the woods! You can kill whitetails with a German rifle even if it doesn't have a German scope on it. Bill
If you're not having fun; you're not doing it right!
Everything you now do is something you have chosen to do. Some people don't want to believe that. But if you're over age twenty-one, your life is what you're making of it. To change your life, you need to change your priorities.
I think 'out of stock' may be more relevant. It's good to see that the economy isn't a problem here! Finding green shoots coming out of the ground means we're closer to recovery than I had suspected. Rather than spend and wait....and having 06 available...and this really isn't that hard. Bill
If you're not having fun; you're not doing it right!
Taking the advice of one of the prior posters I looked up some info on the SAAMI site. The combination I asked about was on their "Don't Do This" List.
I tried posting the list here but the format was cumbersome.
