Home Forums Gear Horses and ATV's Side by side ATV's ...... I don't understand the utility or draw of them

OK, as ATV's get bigger and bigger we now have a plethora of SxS ATV's. My question is this: WHERE can one take these pigs that could not just as easily have been navigated by a small street legal 4x4 like a CJ5 or a Samurai with nice fat aggresive tires and posi? The ads I see for them show them being used in places that I could even get my F-250 4x4 with no troubles! Had mine (F-250 4x4) in cross country / no road mode a fair bit this last week and it hauls a 'bit' more than any 750cc SxS ATV can haul. Cannot for the life of me see what they will do that well equipped and set up a CJ5 could not do as well or better.

What am I missing here?

I've asked the same question in the past and found the real, underlying answer. We're HUNTERS. There is no limit to what the hunter NEEDS to hunt. If there is nothing we don't have, we must invent something else to buy or our sport can't be performed.

Also, the ads showing them on a road open to a 3/4 ton 4x4 are shot by a camera crew with a Dodge Caravan full of photo equipment. If the crew can't get there, no ad.

Here in Utah...trails are developed and maintained at 50" on our Forest property...having boulders or deadfalls creating squueze points on the trails....As also mentioned our BLM property is less restrictive....some BLM trails are listed at 50" for a resaon...too steep or knarley for anything wider...so the places where a SXS will fit...I in no way would take my Toyota Tacoma let alone my 2500HD Chevy..the ATV crowd loves their machines...but SXS's are becoming more popular...especially for some that just want to ride/ buy/maintain/transport one machine...I have both machines...a Honda ATV & Yamaha Rhino...which one goes the most ? The Rhino...more space to haul gear is a very big plus....covered roof is another...much more comfort....windshield to cut the winter air..seatbelts.....side by side passenger conversation...the list goes on..each machine has their place...here's a pic from the Henry Mtns in SE Utah....

OK, that makes sense. Thanks for a reply without getting overly defensive. Nice pic, too. I really was and am curious. As much as I love my Rokon in an area like you hunt I could dig the comfort of that unit for sure! Two up on the Rokon in bumpy terrain is better than walking but a might rough and tiring.

Could you get a CJ-5 where that SxS ATV is sitting? They are pretty narrow and short.

There are many areas in Alaska where there is a 1500lb restriction on off road vehicles which limits it to atv's and some utv's. Another plus for the utv over the regular sized jeep or truck is you can get into the back country much quicker. There are only a few models of utv that I would use up here, the Razr and Rhino and possibly the Prowler, most of the other models are too wide to access some of the trails I ride. I am a big fan of Honda atv's but that Big Red is downright ugly and huge, would make a nice farm rig though.

A friend just bought one of those big ugly honda big red machines,and for what . i can't say. he rides on the puplic roads of west virginia. i think he likes it because he can let his wife drive while he drinks all the coors he can hold.

Now THAT is a serious big game hunter....

Yes....you could drive your one ton 4x4 p/u to the spot where the Rhino is shown....but why ? The Henry Mtn range in SE Utah is very steep...the BLM roads are graded....but again very steep & narrow in spots...and flash floods are common in the lower country in Aug/Sept...the ridgeline in the first pic tops out at nearly 12K'..this pic shows what I cooked for lunch....two fat ribeye steaks and a can of pork & beans....a few cold beers...and scenery of course...lots of room for a full size cooler full of viddles & beer..and everything else you could need 25 miles from the truck...

Because if I can get my truck there, I don't have to spend $6,000 on a SxS ATV, and can take my smaller ATV, like my Rokon in the back of the truck, maybe even a BBQ grill, and go from there to even more remote area's.

Not being argumentative, good posts here, just bantering some questions I have had.

Beautiful country there. Did you bag a big game animal on that trip?

Nope...no tags....Henry's are a premium mule deer draw unit...along with Bison...here's a few bucks I 'shot' with my Sony...eight weeks prior to my last trip in Sept...

Wow. Nice Bucks!

Back to the original question. . . As a lifelong Jeep owner, I originally thought the same about the Rhino/UTVs until I owned one. I was in the market for an ATV, and had talked myself into a new one. After the initial sticker shock at the dealer, I found a well equipped Rhino with 100 miles on it for less money than the ATV I had my eyes on. I compared the pros and cons of each, and the fact that I can pack the whole family comfortably (or 2 guys and a ton of gear) in the Rhino was what tipped the scales. The Rhino weighs 1050 lbs, while a CJ-5 will run 3 times that. You can make your own trails through the woods with the Rhino without tearing up the terrain as much. The Rhino also comes factory with front and rear lockers. You can also put a Rhino in the back of a truck. Try one. You'll like it.

I would say that a Rhino and a CJ-5 are as similar as a .243 and a .30-06 . . . both will get the job done, but one will shine where the other will just get by and visa-versa. YMMV.

let me know where you can get one for 6K.

I was being very conservative and figuring used prices. Have not priced them.

I did the same thing last February..drove a new Honda Rancher with AT & PS....nice quick machine...forgot how much $$...but a new Rhino OTD was $11K....found my used '07 660 with low miles/hrs for $7500 and loaded...its in my garage and I'm happy with it...also have a Honda 450 quad...Tacoma V6 SB 4x4 w/diff loc...Chev 2500HD crew...the Rhino get used...
PS....you won't make your own trails in Utah on Forest or BLM property...stiff tickets await you for off trail riding..

Good posts and answers. I still like my Rokon, kind of the anti SxS or opposite end of the ATV spectrum I suppose.

I found my '06 Camo Rhino with 4K Warn Winch (~$500) and 26" ITP Wheel kit (~$1000), and only 120 miles for $6200. You are right though, the new ones are pricey at $11K or so. I was looking at a Honda Rincon holdover that was $8K, so I was very happy with the deal I found on the Rhino.

Rokons are definitely a neat ride, with no real equal. They are made about 20 minutes from me in Rochester NH. They too are pricey for what they are. Looks like new ones are over $5K.

Another Rhino in 'Rhino Country'.....

I sure like those Rhino's.

I like the Rhino's too, but I sold mine last year and went with the Ranger 6x6. I needed more capacity for the stuff I do, and the 6x6 definitely works for that.

That photo ROCKS. Wish I could do some stuff like that. Way cool.

Have to agree....very cool pic....the moose antlers really fill the back of the Rhino......

That pic could have been taken in any number of places I've hunted in Scotland; except for the moose antlers of course!

On one lease we were on, the forestry roads had deep "runs" washed into them by the rain...

By "deep", I'm taking 3 or 4 feet wide and anything from a couple feet wide to nearly 6 foot across. Having said that, we managed to take stock 4x4's long/across them. I did it numerous times with my Trooper, as did others on the lease using Jeep Cherokees, Discovery's, Toyota Hilux pick-ups ect.. The only time we refrained from trying was in deep snow simply because you could see what was underneath...

Away from the forestry roads, when they were available, we tended to use either a quad or a 6x6 Argo as in a lot of places the ground was too soft to take the weight of a full sized 4x4.

The one thing I don't like about bikes for hunting is having to drag the game out instead of carrying it...Sometimes its a necessary evil, but I feel dragging a gutted carcass through muddy bogs, dirt, and vegitation is best avoided if possible.

A good drag bag, or using a "sled" helps to keep things clean of course...

The pictures below were from a stalking trip to the Isle of Arran off the coast of Scotland...The terrain is actually a lot rougher than it appears as the heather hides a lot of the worst stuff...

The way things worked is when you shot a beast,you'd radio for help and the two guys running the place would come out with quads or an Argo to recover the carcass.





In some instances, if the carcass was with in a few hundred yards of a logging road, ropes and stropes were used to pull it out whole and the beast was the gralloched in the relatively clean conditions ofthe road..The large areas of clear-fell were undoubtedly the worst places to get a beast out from.







[img]http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l237/PeteUK24/carcassextraction4forweb.jpg[/img]

I'm sad to say, but the stag in the pic below is not mine, but it was taken by somebody else in our group..I post it because it shows the utility of a well kitted out argo.

[img]http://www.jesseshunting.com/photopost/data/508/16845grifweb6.jpg[/img]

Argo's of course can also be fitted with tracks so they work equally well in winter and of course they are amphibious to a degree..

I guess really its about picking the right vehicle for the right circumstances...Quads/ATV's are hard to beat as qood all-rounders but once the terrain gets really tricky, a more specialist vehicle like the Rokon or the Argo shines..

WOW! My vote for one of the coolest posts of the year. Thanks a ton for taking the time to put this up. I have been intrigued by the ARGO as well and have been wanting to get one of THOSE as well....

I'm picking up a Big Red next Saturday. I'm entering "old-farthood" and getting tired of being rained on & freezing my nads off on my Foreman. Our club lease has pretty good trails for the most part, and with 2000 acres to cover, the weather protection will be a good thing......

Pard had a bachelor party. Group of us got together with a mixed bag of 4x4, sport and sxs type of vehicles. The sxs went everywhere else the others went and at speed. Nicest thing was the coolers full of hooch that those of us riding the sxs could access and drink on the fly - not so much for the quad guys....

81 cans of beer and bout 22 miles..... good mileage.

Sounds like quite the party! Can a guy get written for DUI whilst on an ATV????

Way to kick some butt.

Probably but we were on private land for the beginning and only on regular trails for a very short time. Side of the road too but that was before the coolers were opened.

The SxS went EVERYWHERE the quads did, just with 2 people on them. You just have to be willing to pin it and go.

We had a blast and was much better than the usual tittybar run.

Yept...DUI or open containers....same ticket...different vehicle...

Yes...the SXS UTV can haul lots of gear to the back country...including a full

size cooler full of beer.....BUT......I always have a designated driver....

And bring home the empties.......

Drinking and driving is not exactly something I'd be bragging about.

Then again - drinking and arsing about on private property is the same as mowing your lawn with a brew or shoveling the driveway with a brew or any number of things done with alcohol.

No injuries other than to ego (seems some people go their Polaris stuck and had to get pulled out with a Yamaha).

That's the beauty of private land - do what the hell you want.

IMO, ridiculously stupid no matter the local.

Fine - you are entitled to it.

only in WI.

or MN, or MI, or....

Well, that is going to be a given when you mix Polaris and Yamaha's.

Yeah - he was having ignition issues too. I wasn't complainin - I was riding shotgun and bartendin. Mostly to me

We have a Polaris Ranger and we don't use it specifically for hunting. Mostly as a ranch vehicle to fix fence, haul stuff like chainsaws etc, manage trails etc. All kinds of running around. More economical than a pickup and all that running around in all kinds of terrain can be quite hard on a truck. We do use it to get to hunting spots or haul a deer out. Nice that it can take 3 guys, all their gear and a deer at the same time.

Well, the Big Red is, um, BIG. A fair bit wider than the Rhino, the bed is large enough to hold a pallet. Ride quality is good, feels similar to the Ranger. Lots of torque from the single cyl 670cc engine and I do like the 3 spd auto transmission. No belt to worry about. The first thing I did was remove those stupid doors, add some auxiliary lights and a 3000lb Superwinch. This baby is going to need one if I stick it, unlike my old Foreman that I could pick up front or back & move it around. For my needs, it works well, has a 1200lb tow rating which means it will probably haul twice that without complaint, and has lots of room to haul gear, feed, etc.

OK..lets see some pics of the big beast......

I looked at one on display in a local mall. Holy crap that thing is big! It would be pretty much worthless here. If you have a trail big enough for it, a Jeep would be better. If you don't have a road, you'll never get it between the rocks and trees. In this country, it's a road machine.

This weekend

Excuse the cellphone pics. Despite it's size, it went everywhere the Rangers and the only Rhino in the club went, one of the guys showed up with a new Kubota diesel, obviously a heavy duty machine, but not really up to off roading, more suited to farm work. Took the photos before getting it really slimed with Georgia clay, we have some pretty steep, rutted climbs that are a challenge for the 4-wheelers as well as the SXS's. The Honda did pretty well, didn't find any place this weekend where I needed both diff locks, just 4WD. I can see this one being just the ticket for my purposes........

BTW: Blooded it and the 243AI this weekend with a nice, fat slickhead.......

Can't go wrong with Honda! Nice ride!

Waputi check your pms

Yept...its Big....and Red too.....

I'm sure its all Honda quality too...

Just 10" wider than my Rhino.....

I have yet to run into a situation my 1985 Honda 200 three wheeler won't get me into or out of. For a whopping $300, I can go anywhere anyone else can.

Bring it to Utah..........

Seating for 4, and the ability to plow snow with your off-road toy. Tough to do that with a Rokon or a three wheeler . . . I'm not saying impossible, just tough

See, the thing is, I can pick my three wheeler up and move it to an optimal spot. How bout you on a sideX?

Yes it's called a winch.No lifting required

Wouldn't take death on three wheels if someone paid me!

Big Red....Fine machines no doubt. I had a buddy with one, he left it at the duck lease. That thing would be covered in ice, and one pull later he was in handle bar deep water headed to his spot. At any rate, it's not for me.
I tried and tried to justify a Rhino. Couldn't do it. Finally the wife agreed if I sold the CJ5, she would'nt raise too much helll if one show'd up at the house. So, the 5 went on Ebay, sold, and I found a Rhino locally. I said all that to say this. I love the thing. It's so much more handy than my 4 wheeler. Hauling firewood, seeds, deer, all this whilst listening to the stereo. I'd let my 4 wheeler go before I got rid of the Rhino.
Just saying, maybe don't knock it until you try it.

When I bought my used 07 loaded/low hrs 660 Rhino in Feb 09...it came with a Warn 3K winch & 60" snow blade...I just recently mounted the blade waiting for the next snow storm...I think it will make a beter snow pusher than my Honda 4x4 quad...much faster shifting with the Rhino....

I lost a good friend to a 3wheeler on asphalt.

3 wheelers fell out of favor for a couple reasons.
1: you need 3 wheel tracks instead of 2. It's hard enough to pick your way between the rocks with 4 wheels.
2: too many injuries and deaths. They're not stable.

I have run over the backs of my calves a time or three with an old Big Red I used to own. Glad it is gone.

3 wheelers were fun though.

We noticed that the rims and tires off a riding lawnmower would bold up to a 250r ATC. That was a blast. I crashed more than one and a 200x or 350x is a torque machine.

We had a 200m and a 250 Big red.Never really trusted either of them myself.But they did save on shoe leather when having to pack moose out.

I have always had 2wd Honda fourwheelers and took the plunge for a 2009 Rhino in November. Many people that have side-by-sides told me they will go anywhere a fourwheeler will go, but due to their width and turning radius, it's just not true. However, due to the utility of the vehicle, I find myself getting on it more than the typical atv's. For example, yesterday I was able to carry a deep cycle battery, trolling motor, burlap cover, two guns, decoys, bags and two hunters in my bike to drive 4 miles down to the river. It was comfortable, safe, and easy.

Now that being said, I often ride for work on tracts of land I am not familiar with. In that situation, I will always take the atv because of its agility and that it is easier to carry in the truck.

Bottom line is that side-by-sides and atvs have overlapping uses, and people that often need to carry passengers, gear, tools, etc are better suited to side by sides than atv's.

I did, until I saw the prices. Properly rigged easily approaching 15K. Bought a 2009 Jeep Rubicon, had a full camo wrap. Best thing I ever did. I've got more hauling capacity than any atv, heat, air, doors and I can legally drive it on the street.

Depends on where you buy. Bought my Big Red out the door for $10 300.00 including windshield, roof and upgraded instrument package. The winch, mount and extra battery was about another $450.00. I've seen 4-wheelers approaching that price.....

I've seen several loaded, low mileage, Rhinos sell around here for under $7k. Lots of guys out of work and selling toys to survive.

If your at all mechanically minded, buy a used Suzuki 410 or 413 for about $750, and then spend another $1000 -$1500 max lifting it and putting decent off road tire wheel combo on it..Add a home made snorkle, fits breathers to the diffs, gear box and anywhere else needed and change the fan to an electric unit with an "over ride" switch in the cab...A set of lockers for the rear axle would be nice but would probably bust your budget, but you'd end up with a small cheap 4x4 that will generally run rings around a side by side ATV and at a fraction of the price. Parts will probably be cheaper as well...

Found this pic on another fourm, but it shows the type of conversions that a popular here in the UK. Many have far more extensive modifications done to them, but something like this would be still a reasonable ride "on road"



Edited to add the official Honda homepage lists the width of the Big Red as 64" which is 162.5cm..

Yahamas website gives the 2009 Rhino as being 54.5" wide, which is 139cm

The Suzuki owners club lists both the SJ410 and SJ413 as being 146cm wide!

So even if you went with wider tires on the Suzuki, its still only going to be as wide as the Honda Big Red!!

WOW, 7 pages later and Pete E makes the point I started out with better than I did/could. I said Suzuki Samurai in my original post but was thinking of these little beauty's when I posted, did not know what they were called. PLUS, the rig is street/hwy legal.

Cool pic! Could go a lot of places with that little buggie, including down to the grocery store and back!

Suzuki called these various names in different parts of the world..In the UK they were also called the Samurai and the Santana, but SJ410 and SJ413 were the "official designation" for all the markets and as they refer to the engine size, if helps avoid confusion..

If you want to see a few others, try googling "Suzuki Stockman"
and that should show the "trayback" version which was available down in Oz...

Are Samurai's sold made over there? I thought they quit making/selling them here in '87.
I love mine and wish it had less miles.

stumpy

I have been looking for a Samurai for about 3 months now, I will not stop until I find one. They will go more places that a UTV and have heat and defrost

Neither the SJ410 and the SJ410 have been available new for some time in the UK. I *think* all production has ceased, but I hesitate to say that in case they are still being built under license in some obscure third world country somewhere.

As far as I know, the Samurai's were made in Japan, and the Santana's were built in Spain...Google is probably your best bet for the exact history..

In the UK, both models have been replaced by the Jimny, which I have..its not quite so basic, and now has coil springs all round instead of leaf...it has retained the beam axles, so is still a choppy ride on the road, but it generally excellent off road.

The down side is that some of the drive drive is supposedly not as tough as the SJ413's. That said, at least here in the UK anyway, there is a increasing availablity of after market upgrades for Jimny should such problems be encountered...

My main dissapointments with the Jimny is they don't do a five door version and neither are they available with a small diesel engine only the 1.3 petrol; a diesel would really be the icing on the cake for off roading...

Regards,

Peter

I know for a while, the hot ticket in the Samurai over here was to lift it 6 inches and add a diesel from a VW Jetta.

Teal,

Those sort of conversions were popular over here too..The trouble is once you get too "radical" especially with larger wheel and lift kits, it then looses its practicality for onroad use...

I could never understand why neither SJ413 nor the Jimny were offered with a small deisel as a factory option...It was only with the Vitara (Sierra?) that Suzuki eventually bowed to demand to go that route...

Regards,

Peter

I looked for a long time for a good Suzuki Samurai or Toyota FJ40 but for someone like myself who can't do body work or detailed mechanical work, it just didn't make sense.


Beyond that, there's just something about the way these UTV's drive and go that make them so much more enjoyable. Sure I can drive my truck across a muddy, bumpy field(my own fields) but it's just totally different doing it in an UTV.


I know where you're coming from as I use to rail against people stupid enough to spend 'ALL' that money on an UTV. No way they were worth what you could buy a good used truck for.

Then you drive one....