Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

If you think QL is sooo accurate in RL17 pressure calcs, you better get busy scolding the folks at Alliant for their published data too.

OK a couple of points here. Where does the Alliant data say it's running at 46K?

2nd I'm not the one who has put much stock in Quickload data, YOU ARE:




It sure seems to me that you are pretty selective about QuickLoad, agreeing with it when you want too and discounting it when it disagrees with your Overloads using RL-17.

Simple fact is you have NO idea the actual pressure your loads are generating and they are 5 to 6 grains over the maximum listed loads given by the manufacturer, and NOT only with 30-06 loads you are ASSUMING WITHOUT PROOF they are at low pressures but also with 308 loads most likely AREN'T at lower pressures.

I also realize that your mind is made up and you aren't going to listen to anyone whether it's JB, Brad, me or any other experienced poster. I keep bringing up the fact that your loads are so far over maximum listed loads in the hope that someone else might think twice about using such data.......................................DJ

DJ,

If you believe QL pressure calcs are the real deal, check out these calcs. These are maximum loads I pulled from four major reloading manuals sitting within arms reach.

These are all 30-06 max reload manual loads, and corresponding Quickload pressure calcs. I used Win brass case volume of 71.0gr water. I did not add friction proofing via moly:

200gr Partition, RL22, 58gr - 46.9K (lbs-psi)
180gr Partition, RL22, 61gr - 47.8K
125gr B-Tip, RL15, 56gr - 48.5K

220gr Hdy RN, RL19, 56.2gr - 52.1K
220gr Hdy RN, RL15, 45.7gr - 45.6K

200gr Speer, RL15, 47gr - 45.7K
200gr Speer, RL19, 55gr - 45.1K
200gr Speer, RL22, 58gr - 45.1K
200gr Speer, RL25, 60gr - 43.9K

200gr SMK, RL15, 44.9gr - 41.9K
200gr SMK, RL19, 52.8gr - 41.4K
220gr SMK, RL15, 43.5gr - 43.3K
220gr SMK, RL19, 51.6gr - 44.0K

So there are your book max calcs. If that's the hill you want to die on, go for it.

DJ, My method of load development is fairly widely used. Kiss lands, find pressure, back off a bit and find accuracy. i didn't invent it.

If 65K in a Rem 700 scares you, don't have one in 22-250, 25-06, 270, or any of the WSMs, SAUMs, or RUMs.

All my using loads calc around 60-62K, with the exception of this RL17 I've just started working with.

It's not a secret that there are some new retardant technologies associated with RL17.

Based on over 30 years of handloading, finding pressure, etc, I believe QL does not account for the burn properties of RL17.

Running Alliant's published RL17 load data through QL corroborates my opinion.

As always, stay in your comfort zone. I do.

BTW, my Norma 30-06 brass (notoriously soft), has 20+ reloads on it. Many of the cases are over 40 reloads.

That is not possible with a steady diet of overpressure loads.

Thank you for proving one of my points. You use Quickload as fact when it agrees with what you want to say............................DJ

You aren't being consistent in your argument. One minute you say QL is unreliable, the next it's correct???

My opinion on QL is that it is generally pretty good at correlating velocity to pressure with powders I've used, except RL17.

I know there is a margin of error in QL. Never didn't know that. It's just another tool.

Hell, you naysayers argue the accuracy of any pressure testing equipment.

I'm not presenting QL calcs as 'fact'. That's your word you are trying to put in my mouth. I'm not falling for it.

I'm giving you a general idea of how low max book loads for the 30-06 really are. It's not a precise measure, it's an estimate that is usually reasonably close.

Anyone who actually uses QL would know that.

The figures on the Speer bullets is the same as is in the Speer reloading manual #14. All that it says about the pressure is that it doesn't exceed the industry maximum average pressure of 50,000CUP.

Here is a link to where they actually PRESSURE TESTED some of the loads you mentioned above (even used a SAAMI reference load):

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/316101735

With a 180gr Partition with 61grs of RL-22 mean max pressures of 57,000psi
A 200gr partition with 58grs of RL-22 had mean pressures of 54,000psi


Quickload is WAY off actual pressure tested data with the same bullets and powder. As is your assumption that the factory tested data is at such a low pressures....................................DJ

Look, I know you disagree with my load practices. I really don't care. Stay with your book data, and prosper.

I'm simply doing things I enjoy, and sharing my findings.

Use it as you will. I can assure you I'm not bothered in the least.

I'm sure you will come running in the future, when I post results too. See ya then.

I do agree with you here. QL is simply a tool, and one that is often quite demonstrably wrong for that matter. And I'm also sure that a lot of people will also argure against the pressure tested data I gave the link for.

I think you have to look at as many different sources of data as possible and look for as much agreement as possible - harder to do of course with a new powder. For some rounds you can find data that goes beyond most other data but not 5 or 6 grains in a 50-60gr powder charge!...............................DJ

In the meantime, I'm going to be loading/shooting these:

308, 208AMax, 50gr RL17 (2570 fps, 20.5" bbl)

30-06, 208AMax, 55gr RL17 (2730 fps, 22.5" bbl)

I'll post any pressure situations or early brass failure. Not expecting it at this point though.

Oh I stand corrected, you second load is only 4 grains over the listed max. Your first is only 1.3grs over the max load for a bullet 28grs lighter.

Benchrested typically firewall thier loads. They typically use a set of 40-50 rounds of brass to last an entire season, some the entire life of a barrel. The point being long brass life does NOT necessarily mean you are running pressures at or below maximum...............................DJ

So far you've referenced others research, load manuals, other posters here, and now benchresters in general.

It would add some credibility if you related something insightful and quantitative that you actually did yourself.

I hope that in over 4600posts I might have contibuted at least somethimg worthwhile! But maybe not .

Last time I posted one of my 308 loads I also got several posters questioning whether or not I was loading mine too hot.

................Since it was a load printed on the powder can I figured it shouldn't be too far off! (46.0grs of Varget with 165gr bullets) .................................DJ

Every rifle is a bit of an entity unto itself regarding pressure.

Published data is generally calculated at the lowest common denominator of pressure factors. I'm talking about temperature, case volume, seating depth, friction proofing, throat length, barrel wear, and I'm sure there are more. It makes sense for liability reasons.

The beauty of QL is that you can adjust many of these factors to equal your specific conditions. The more accurate the inputs, the more accurate the outputs.

The difference in calc'd pressure between default inputs, and my specific inputs (corrected OAL, friction-proofing, case volume), change the pressure calc by over 10,000 lbs-psi in the 30-06/208/RL17 combo.

[

Here's a little place on public land not far away, where I set up for LR steel.


I carry my junk up the hill to a 1050 yard firing point.




I won't critique your loading, but I might suggest you move the truck.

Do you really think I left the truck that close to the target?

Who here missed the point, several times, that Shane is running moly, please stand up........