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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,914 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,914 Likes: 11 |
I was wondering about that.....(laughin'!)
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078 |
That target and swingset weigh over 100 lbs. I don't carry it too far to set it up.
I pulled the truck away about 75 yards or so before going up the hill. Common sense.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,914 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,914 Likes: 11 |
I pulled the truck away about 75 yards or so before going up the hill. Common sense.
Well yeah, I don't 'spose you want holes in the F250.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,648 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,648 Likes: 1 |
Shane,
Don't fret the lecturing folks...
Carry on pard...
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749 |
Who here missed the point, several times, that Shane is running moly, please stand up........ So what? Moly does NOT magically give you the ability to shoot 250-300fps faster without also using excessive pressures, nor does it make loads 4-6 grains over max safe. It can either slightly lower pressure or maybe give you 50-75fps extra velocity when loaded to the same pressures, and yes I have shot well over 10,000 Moly coated bullets in a dozen different calibers. Moly can be a useful but it's not magic.........................DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078 |
It's not just the moly.
There are a few factors in play that all reduce pressure.
- moly
- long oal
- longer throat
- roomy brass
- worn-in throat (nearly 5000 rounds)
All of these combined give a significant reduction in pressure. QL estimates a reduction of over 10K psi, over default values. The worn throat is not an editable input.
QL pressure calcs are not definitive, but they beat the hell out of whatever pressure calcs you can discern from any manual.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749 |
It's not just the moly.
There are a few factors in play that all reduce pressure.
- moly
- long oal
- longer throat
- roomy brass
- worn-in throat (nearly 5000 rounds)
Agreed that all of these tend to lower pressures. The SAAMI limits have a level of safety built into them. So if you push things to the edge of the safety limits with a rifle that has all the tolerances to one end of the spectrum you might be OK in your rifle but when someone tries the same loads in a rifle that isn't to the same edge of tolerances you can start breaking things. Just not safe reloading practice...............................DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078 |
Starting low and working up is a fairly safe practice. Idiots who don't know that will hurt themselves, regardless of what they read on the internet.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078 |
I loaded incrementally from 55-60 grains, and stopped at the first signs of pressure (57gr).
There's a reason I didn't start shooting at 60gr and work down.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749 |
Starting low and working up is a fairly safe practice. Idiots who don't know that will hurt themselves, regardless of what they read on the internet. I've seen broken rifles that resulted from just such reloading practices. It's the old P.O. Ackley reloading method of increasing powder 1/2gr at a time until you get sticky bolt lift, then back off a grain. Trouble is when they went around to testing some of the loads developed this way pressures were way up into the 70K psi range. The early glowing reports of the 7 STW were another example of this. Guys were developing loads until they got "pressure signs" and marketed a new super caliber. Again the trouble was when they started pressure testing the loads they were waaay over safe pressure limits and later loads and reloading data were signifigantly reduced. Lots of "Advanced" reloaders whine about how the new manuals are "lawyer proofed" and the loads are a lot milder than they used to be. It doesn't have anything to do with lawyers, it's that more and more people have access to pressure testing equipment and the old loads developed by using your "pressure signs" were simply over max pressure limits. You aren't the first and won't be the last and there will always be reloaders who think it's safe to go over the limits........................DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078 |
Yeah, I'm a reckless risk taker. The nerve to load my 30-06 over 46K pressure in my rifle. And to write of it publicly......Oh the humanity!
You don't know how much you don't know.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078 |
Here's something for you to chew on, I know, I know,.........QL calcs with corrected inputs are useless. Manuals are the cat's whiskers......
Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 208, Hornady A-MAX 30712, Friction Proofed
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.450 inch or 87.63 mm
Barrel Length : 22.5 inch or 571.5 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.818% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-18.2 75 45.00 2200 2236 33944 8764 97.7 1.525
-16.4 77 46.00 2246 2330 35986 8948 98.3 1.484
-14.5 79 47.00 2291 2425 38143 9120 98.9 1.444
-12.7 80 48.00 2336 2521 40420 9279 99.3 1.406
-10.9 82 49.00 2381 2618 42823 9423 99.6 1.369
-09.1 84 50.00 2425 2716 45359 9554 99.8 1.333
-07.3 85 51.00 2469 2816 48050 9670 100.0 1.299
-05.5 87 52.00 2512 2915 50890 9771 100.0 1.266
-03.6 89 53.00 2555 3016 53894 9864 100.0 1.234 ! Near Maximum !
-01.8 90 54.00 2598 3117 57072 9955 100.0 1.203 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 92 55.00 2640 3219 60440 10044 100.0 1.173 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.8 94 56.00 2682 3321 64007 10132 100.0 1.145 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.6 96 57.00 2723 3425 67790 10216 100.0 1.117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.5 97 58.00 2764 3529 71805 10299 100.0 1.090 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+07.3 99 59.00 2805 3634 76067 10379 100.0 1.064 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+09.1 101 60.00 2846 3740 80595 10457 100.0 1.039 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749 |
Yeah, I'm a reckless risk taker. The nerve to load my 30-06 over 46K pressure in my rifle. And to write of it publicly......Oh the humanity!
You don't know how much you don't know. I do know that your loads are well over printing maximum loads - fact. YOU don't know what pressures you are shooting at, until you measure them you are merely GUESSING. So who doesn't know what?........................DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078 |
OK, you tell me my pressures, and how you calc'd them.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
And, you don't know what pressures his loads are running, either. Which means that you're guessing.
Given that neither of you has pressure-tested his loads in his rifles, neither of you know for sure what the pressure is, exactly.
Given that Shane's the only one shooting it, that he has PLENTY of experience reloading, and his load methods are standard (notice: methods, not loads), I'd say the only person with a problem with it is the person who is not shooting it, loading for it, or having anything else to do with it.
DJ, I don't know what you're trying to prove, but I don't think it's working.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078 |
I rate a calc, higher than a guess.
Especially when backed up by physical indicators from actually shooting them.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,313
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,313 |
Always someone complaining about reloading practices.
Shane and Seafire catch alot of schitt for this.
I doubted RL17 when it first came out but have since acquired some and dropped it in my 22" 300SAUM and got 2950fps easily. This is below max load.
Carry on you risk takers;)
Talking to you is like trying to nail jello to the wall.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749 |
Always someone complaining about reloading practices.
Shane and Seafire catch alot of schitt for this.
Seafire has already had one gun blown up by someone using his loads. I sincerely hope that the same doesn't happen to Shane.........................DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749 |
And, you don't know what pressures his loads are running, either. Which means that you're guessing.
Given that neither of you has pressure-tested his loads in his rifles, neither of you know for sure what the pressure is, exactly.
True enough, but what is known is that some of his loads have been as much as 6 grains! over published maximums. Are you trying to tell me you think that this is safe?.......................DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
Could be. Much longer COAL, much more capacious brass, moly, maybe a bit larger bore.
Fact is, you don't know, and neither does he. But, he's the one shooting it, the factors that can be checked without specifically pressure testing it all fall within accepted parameters, and he's done everything he can to calculate and accommodate the variables for his specific load.
You're going by intentionally conservative loads, with much different variables than his loads, and again, you're discounting the generally accepted factors that he's citing that are within standard practice.
Again, I don't know what you're trying to prove, but I do think you're failing at it, regardless.
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