Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only .375 ruger vs. 375 H&H

This one's for Bob in NH: Bob, can you elaborate a little please on your comment regarding svelte 375s being due to stock and action, please. I'd love to read your thoughts on the matter and any examples you could point to would also be appreciated.

Jeff

Jeff: Many 375 H&H's are built too heavy;always have been,including the vaunted pre 64 M70.Starting back(who knows when,the 40's or 50's?)guys like a fellow named John George,who wrote in American Rifleman,and who hunted extensively in Kenya,were turning M 70's over to good custom smiths like Tom Shelhammer,cuttin the barrels to 23",turning them down,and restocking with light,tough pieces of French walnut,and rifle that weighed, all up,about what a current 375 Ruger African weighes.Al Biesen built similar 375H&H rifles for guys like John Jobson.

Fast forward to the 80's,and the synthetic stock era.It now becomes possible to put a light #4 contour barrel (slightly lighter or slightly heavier) on a M70 or Mauser-type action,stock it in a Brown Precision stock, and get a 375 H&H that weighs about 8-8.5 pounds scoped.

Ruger 375H&H's were clubs; they didn't need to be,but no one at Ruger was thinking.Until they brought out the 375 Ruger in the African, which MIGHT be the nicest,best-balanced factory 375 ever made at a reasonable price.....but the notion that a 375H&H cannot be made as light, or as handy, is BS;simply untrue. And anybody that wants the H&H round in a package just as light,and just as handy, as the Ruger,can have it,if he wants it.

This is why I say that light 375H&H's have been around for years;you've been missing the boat for about 40 years if you've been lugging a 9.5-10 pound 375H&H around....

A pre 64 M70 action, whether it's set up to handle a 375 Ruger,or a 375H&H,weighs about the same;the H&H action is only "longer" on the inside;ditto a M70 Classic.Just put the same barrel contour on it as a Ruger African,the same type and weight stock,but chamber it for the H&H round; you have the same thing....no difference.

This is not rocket science.Take a H&H-length action,put the same contour barrel on it as a Ruger African,you'll get a lighter rifle.

I just weighed my pre 64 M70 375H&H,24" Krieger barrel,Brown Precision stock,4X Leupold in two piece base and rings.....8 pounds on the nose. A M70 Classic stainless in the Legend pattern McMillan,factory tube and 3X Leupold,Weaver bases and rings, weighs the same.....8 pounds on the money.This rifle "feels" heavier because the barrel contour is heavier; I may have it turned down.But the scale does not lie...8 pounds is 8 pounds.

So,what is the advantage of the Ruger 375 cartridge?
It fits a 30/06 action(neat). It's easier for Ruger to make.....That's it.The rifle itself is better designed because it took a factory 80 years or so to get it right;but it ain't because of the chambering...a 375H&H can be just as light,any time you want it,but probably not as cheaply!

Why it is simple, People don't really intend to shoot them much. I have one light weight .375H&H, the first time I pulled the trigger, it was like getting kicked in the shoulder by and axe. It became my loner for visitors. Now it gets shot by anyone that wants to try out a .375H&H. It wears a sling and great open sights and weights in at 7 pounds and 6 ozs when loaded with 4 rounds of ammo. This rifle is flat out brutal to shoot.

I actually had one friend shoot a full box of shells throught the rifle and lived to bragg about it (I should have sold it to him).

bob,

can you post a pic of your's and can you measure the muzzle diameter for us? curious to see what you are talking about here.

thanks.

JS: My barrel is .711 at the muzzle,24" and .816 at the forend.It could safely be lighter.I suspect the Ruger African contour is lighter still.No reason that contour could be not duplicated on a H&H as well.

As to recoil, well,no 375 is designed for long strings of shots.But the Brown Precision stock is a bit flexible,seems to absorb some recoil along the way. The comb on it and the Echols Legend are both high and straight,bring recoil more or less straight back at you,and to me is more comfortable to shoot than my original pre 64 M70 in its' wood stock.

A lot has to do with stock design,material,etc. The Brown stocked rifle is more comfy to shoot than some 300's 338's and 340 Weatherby's I've owned and messed with.

I do not know how to post pics here,but if you PM me with an email address I can email a pic.

Bob, agree with you on the recipe for a light and lively 375. Mine was a Ruger African fit into either the factory wood - before it became a 404 - or now in a Rimrock stock. But no reason for the H&H variant not to be the base chambering with the same end result. The key IMO is the contour of the barrel, the shape of the stock and the overall weight and balance - that's what Ruger finally got right in the African.

As much as like my 375 Ruger Alaskan for the wet places - it is tough and handy - but not as well balanced as the African with its slim 23" barrel and a slender wood stock. The Alaskan is a brutish sort of tool that gets the job done when conditions get grim, but it's not the stuff fanciful dreams of safaris are made of.

Wildcatter: I agree 100%.When I first picked up a 375 Ruger African I said to myself.."Well, someone finally got it right!"

Wish they'd done it 25+ years ago cause it would have saved me a lot of money!

I would still have my Ruger African,which I liked a lot,but the bolt handle is swept too close to my trigger finger,and pummels it hard every shot.My M70 375's don't do that...and since I have had a "light" 375 for 24+ years now,I guess I am back to the H&H

Interesting you should point that out. Shooting the 404-375 African fractured my trigger finger twice - takes me awhile to figure out when something is too much of a good thing. As soon as it's back from having the broken factory wood stock repaired, I plan to have the bolt handle either straightened or replaced. Straightening the backward sweep angle of the bolt would be a good production modification for Ruger to adopt in the 375s IMHO.

Wildcatter: Exactly....the bolt handle is too close....even with gloves on, it hurts after a couple of shots.We are not in this for the pain

Wildcatter, I was at the SCI show, at the show which followed the intro of the 375 Ruger, and mentioned the bolt handle issue. BobinNH and I had been talking about how it was beating our knuckles. I heaq Ruger guy looked at me like I was from outerspace when I suggested they use a straight down handle.

Al Biesen built a bunch of lw 375 H&H M70's starting in the 50's. He cut the factory barrel to 23" and turned it down. The first he built was for John Jobson who was on the Staff of Sports Afield. Jobson had to plead and threaten him to do it but the result was so nice that many more were made.

Aint no animal gonna be able to tell the difference between the H&H and Ruger once it's been hit.

But some of them prefer to be killed with nostalgic rounds while others prefer the more modern approach.

I have played a good deal with both in that I have made a few in both calibers and wrung them out on the range..One is as good as the other, but I would not run out and sell my good 375 H&H just to buy a Ruger 375...If I were shopping for a .375 I would give the 375 Ruger some consideration, but I pick my gun by the gun and how it handled, how it fit me, and how it looked to me, not one cartridge over the other..

I have hunted extensively with the 375 H&H and it has a certain amount of nostalgia conected to it with me anyway....

.....................Exactly! Determine the rifle that you like the best for feel, handling weight, etc., and then let the cartridge (375 H&H or 375 Ruger), fall where it may.

H & H , you can't improve perfection!

I believe the .375 H&H provides that right combination of comfort and dependable game getting performance.

In my books, a marginal velocity increase such as that offered by the .375 Ruger will not make any measurable difference in the real world of hunting. Having said that, I have found a significant difference in the level of recoil between the two cartridges.

In my experience a significant difference in recoil usually translates into a significant difference in performance on game as well

.........Yes you can!.......The H&H cartridge "itself" maybe close to perfection all-right, but many H&H makers still make those heavier, longer and pig like handling rifles like the one I once owned.

Three 375 H&H owners that I know, wish they had a 40" to 42" OAL and a lighter rifle. But, they don`t wish to spend the money needed to shorten the barrels and/or change the stocks......That`s perfection?

Sako caught on by introducing their 370 Sako. Whether one likes that particular cartridge or not, is another matter. The point is, is that they offer their 370 Sako, in a sweeter handling and lighter 21" tubed, shorter OAL rifle.

Perfection or close to it, comes from both ends of the spectrum. The cartridge is only one end!

When I see more 375 H&Hs from the factory, which are similiar in length and weight to the Ruger Africans and Alaskans, then imo, that`ll be closer to perfection.

Hunted with 375 H&H for many years mine a is custom Ruger No. 1. Also very easy to reload fore and cheaper than factory ammo!

Can't say anything about 375 Ruger, but their is just something about a 375 H&H thats hard to beat1 You don't stay around since 1912 unless your good!