Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only .375 ruger vs. 375 H&H

I know they say the .375 Ruger is faster then the .375 H&H even with the Ruger in a shorter barrel, but what do they compare this with? Do they take the same barrel length rifles and shoot the H&H with Hornady Heavy mag loads, or just the normal H&H loads? Has anybody chroned .375 H&H Hornady heavy magnum loads and then the Ruger loads using the same bullet? I believe the Ruger loads are comparable to the heavy mganum loads or the loads Hornady now call Superformance now.

The Ruger case is a little larger and holds about 6gr more powder than the H&H case so when comparing apples to apples it will either give a tad bit more velocity or less pressure - take your pick.
In my 24" barrel Ruger 375 H&H the Hornady 270 gr HM 375 HH ammo averaged 2755fps and from the 23" barrel African the 375 Ruger 270gr averaged 2720fps.

.........I`ll try and answer you as best as possible.

Before buying my 375 Ruger Alaskan nearly two years ago, I had a conversation with Hornady, asking them what their`s and Ruger`s goal was with the 375 Ruger, when it was conceived.

In essence, their goal was to produce a handier and shorter OAL rifle with a 20" barrel, with a shorter `06 length action, that would offer longer barreled 375 H&H ballistics. Both Ruger and Hornady recognized then as they do now, the continuing trend towards shorter and handier rifles and in so doing, maintaining as much velocity performance as possible, without sacrificing too much if any to the longer barreled bretheren. So why not try and do so with a 375 to be made for a shorter OAL rifle!!!

First, they needed more powder capacity than the H&H and in a shortened `06 length case. So less taper than the H&H was needed from the base to the shoulder (similiar to the Newton) to increase the powder capacity.

During the entire R&D process, the 375 Ruger was test fired for accuracy thousands of times involving many different powders, chrony`d from many 20" barrels and compared with numerous test firings from 24" and 25" 375 H&H barrels using all 375 bullet weights. Before the new Ruger round was intro`d, there was extensive range testing for accuracy and field testing on big game, including the dangerous African game. Hornady & Ruger really did their homework!

From my reloads, here are two load examples which I carefully worked up to and then chronographed. I will also include the source of these two loadings. These velocity results are from my "individual" Ruger Alaskan.

375 Ruger Alaskan; 20" barrel

79.5 gr RL15; 225 gr Horn SP @ 3000 fps. Source from Hornady. They e/mailed me a data sheet showing 79.5 gr RL15 @ 3000 fps. I threw in an extra 3/10ths grain at 79.8 gr and got 3016 fps. No visible pressure signs or sticky bolt.

87 gr H-4350; 270 gr Horn SP @ 2875 fps. Source is "gunblast.com",,,,"archives" section,,,,,scroll down to 2/6/07. See the test review of the Hawkeye African by Jeff Quinn, (a great read btw), in which there are about 20 chrono`d loadings. That same loading from Quinn`s 23" African which gave him 2875 fps, got me 2808 fps.

There is nothing that one of these cartridges can do, that the other cannot do. No debating that! What makes the 375 Ruger very appealing which the H&H rifles cannot offer, are the shorter rifles chambered for it. In the Alaskan`s case, its shorter, handier, faster to shoulder, with better manuverability, while still having the same wampum as the 6" longer H&H rifles. In the velocity dept, the 23" African is just a little more icing on the cake.

Though I suppose one can always cut the barrel down to 20" on an H&H rifle to make it handier and so on. But doing so would make the velocity gap greater between them, which would certainly not favor the 375 H&H if given the same 20" barrel length as the 375 Ruger.

It`s not just the cartridge, it`s the rifle more so!

In the field I will never see a difference. The Ruger is a better cartridge but it lacks the history and availability of the Holland.

.............You`re right! There will be no difference in the field.

Though the 375 H&H has nearly a 100 year history and I used to own one, I don`t place or associate any historical value, historical significance, nostalgia, or use the term "classic" for any rifle cartridge. Instead and regardless of the cartridge age or history, I look at the present merits of a cartridge and the rifles chambered for it.

As far as availability is concerned and considering that the Ruger round is only about 3 years old, dies and all necessary re-loading components are readily available from most distributors along with a great deal of reloading data. Hornady has acquired and is currently working on getting more licensing and distribution rights oversees including Africa for their factory ammo. Given a few more years, and as with all things which take time to do, worldwide factory ammo availability will not be an issue.

I have yet to hear or read of any stories in which a 375 Ruger was taken to Africa, only to then not be used because of transportation problems with lost ammo. Also according to Hornady, PHs and other outfitters can order factory ammo for their clients well in advance of any hunt just in case the ammo is lost.

Either way, if a 375 Ruger rifle and its ammo, and/or a 375 H&H rifle and its ammo are lost in the transportation shuffle, the client will have to use a back-up rifle and ammo provided by the PH.

Airlines and baggage handlers aren`t discriminatory when it comes to which rifle, caliber, cartridges and ammo are lost vs which get through ok.

I may get a .375 Ruger if Winchester will make the rifle and Federal will load the ammunition but I'm not interested in Hornady ammunition or M77MKIIs.

As it stands I was going to build a 416 Ruger but got a great deal on a Rigby and I'm going to use that M70 action elsewhere. I've read way too many African hunting classics to not care about history.

As another option, you can also buy a Winchester M70 30-06 new or used, and then convert it over to the 375 Ruger?? If I were you, I wouldn`t necessarily be waiting around for Winchester.

I have a .300 I was going to put a .416 Ruger barrel on. Would have been an easy modification, just spendy.

Could you convert the 300 over to the 375 Ruger? I`ve never converted any rifle over, so I have literally zippo experience as far as conversions. I just get the cartridge I want right off the dealer racks. The brand of rifle just happens to follow along.

I recently posted it on another thread but my Win 70 Sporter Classic was a 300WM prior to converting it over to a 375Ruger. All it needed was a little tweaking of the top of the mag box. The conversion was not expensive. If you keep the flowery options to a minimum, the cost stay reasonably low. Again...a pic



RH

They didn't do a very good job of matching the color on the barrel to the action.

I purposely did it that way because everybody knows stainless barrels are more accurate.

RH

I think it's pretty funny that some think the appeal of the H&H is based on "history" or "nostalgia";it's appeal is much more practical than any of those esoteric standards......it's popular(and has been) because it just "works",and has worked since it was introduced.

And those shlepping around heavy 375H&H's,thinking that the Ruger makes a lighter rifle,are only just about 30-40 years behind the times...it might have taken the factories all these years to catch up,but guys in the "know" have been building light ,svelte 375's since the 40's and 50's...no secret...it ain't the actions...it's the stocks and barrels......

The 375H&H is also "available",even in out-of-the-way places where big game is hunted...in our lifetimes, no matter how desperately it's fans may wish,the 375 Ruger(notwithstanding all its' virtues)will never over take the great....375H&H.

.............Ruger and Hornady really didn`t and don`t expect it to. Overtaking the H&H was really not in their game plan. If it does, it does, and if it doesn`t, it doesn`t!

Speaking for myself, I as a 375 Ruger owner don`t need nostalgia or history, and I don`t need ammo availability in every isolated nook & cranny on the planet, in order to "fully" enjoy its virtues and the handier rifle chambered for it!....

I don't understand the obsession with light rifles. Last season I hunted with a 9.5 pound 9.3 and backed it up with a 10 lb 2 oz 375. My primary .375 is 8.5 pounds in wood and I ordered a magnum filled stock for it to get it where I want it to be...

But short I understand. I like short.

..........I wouldn`t exactly call it an obesession, but rather a preference. You be a Herk-a-leeez! .......... My 375 Ruger Alaskan isn`t exactly light either at 8 lbs 13 oz. w/scope. But at only 40 3/4" long, that`s where the fun and easy part comes into play.

That would make it virtually identical in length to a limited run of 20" H&Hs which Winchester made a few years back; a handy size I would add.

And while I'm sure the Ruger would fill my needs most of the time, for the most serious of pursuits, it has nothing to beat the reliability of feeding which the slick, slender H&H has, nor the gentle taper and belt which ensure that the case will both feed in spite of crud and headspace adequately anyway. "Our" armchair wishes for better cases sans belts and stubby powder columns are fairly light in substance though hefty in cranial satisfaction.

................News flash!!....News flash!........ My 375 Ruger always has been and is a flawless feeder,,,,with crud or without crud!!!.....No armchairing wishes or armchairing QB`n! No hefty "cranial satisfactions" either!...................NEXT!

As long as it suits you. Winter, ice, and blowing snow have a way of sorting things out. So does days of exposure to gritty river silt such as that which the Yukon River can dish up. The old, but belted, slender shape of the H&H works acceptably where straighter cases begin to bind up. Nothing wrong with either cartridge; they're both great, but the biggest single advantage to the Ruger Mags is the fact that they fit the standard M77 without much fuss- which the H&H won't, while the H&H has been selling well in the competition's standard set-ups. Most hunters and most hunting situations can be well set with either. Then again, the same could probably be said about the 30-06.

I`m very familiar with the H&H cartridge and its particular merits as I had one hunted with it and reloaded for it for many years.

But that OA rifle length of 46.5" and 10+ lbs of rifle weight really gets old and it handled like a pig. The Ruger Alaskan was a refreshing change. A big difference.

Off the racks, that`s one big advantage that the 375 H&H rifles simply cannot offer that the 375 Ruger can! Sorry H&H boys!

I went from a 46.5" long rifle that weighed 10+ lbs w/scope, down to 40.75" long rifle, which weighs 8 lbs 13 oz. w/scope. And, I didn`t lose a darn thing ballistically. In fact, I gained a little.

But, I suppose anyone can always cut the barrel down to 20" on their H&H rifle and do other things to lighten it up, making it handier and better handling, which the H&H rifle makers don`t offer.

Between the magazine and the chamber, yes, the H&H will have more capacity, but that`s ok. I can put three into the magazine and one into the chamber, for a 3+1 loading. I don`t consider that any disadvantage for moose, bison or the big bears.

And if the 375 Ruger is good enough for Boddington and many others in Africa, it`ll certainly be good enough for me when I get over there someday.

Like I stated before, it wasn`t just the 375 Ruger cartridge, but more importantly, it was the rifle change itself.

This one's for Bob in NH: Bob, can you elaborate a little please on your comment regarding svelte 375s being due to stock and action, please. I'd love to read your thoughts on the matter and any examples you could point to would also be appreciated.

Jeff

Jeff: Many 375 H&H's are built too heavy;always have been,including the vaunted pre 64 M70.Starting back(who knows when,the 40's or 50's?)guys like a fellow named John George,who wrote in American Rifleman,and who hunted extensively in Kenya,were turning M 70's over to good custom smiths like Tom Shelhammer,cuttin the barrels to 23",turning them down,and restocking with light,tough pieces of French walnut,and rifle that weighed, all up,about what a current 375 Ruger African weighes.Al Biesen built similar 375H&H rifles for guys like John Jobson.

Fast forward to the 80's,and the synthetic stock era.It now becomes possible to put a light #4 contour barrel (slightly lighter or slightly heavier) on a M70 or Mauser-type action,stock it in a Brown Precision stock, and get a 375 H&H that weighs about 8-8.5 pounds scoped.

Ruger 375H&H's were clubs; they didn't need to be,but no one at Ruger was thinking.Until they brought out the 375 Ruger in the African, which MIGHT be the nicest,best-balanced factory 375 ever made at a reasonable price.....but the notion that a 375H&H cannot be made as light, or as handy, is BS;simply untrue. And anybody that wants the H&H round in a package just as light,and just as handy, as the Ruger,can have it,if he wants it.

This is why I say that light 375H&H's have been around for years;you've been missing the boat for about 40 years if you've been lugging a 9.5-10 pound 375H&H around....

A pre 64 M70 action, whether it's set up to handle a 375 Ruger,or a 375H&H,weighs about the same;the H&H action is only "longer" on the inside;ditto a M70 Classic.Just put the same barrel contour on it as a Ruger African,the same type and weight stock,but chamber it for the H&H round; you have the same thing....no difference.

This is not rocket science.Take a H&H-length action,put the same contour barrel on it as a Ruger African,you'll get a lighter rifle.

I just weighed my pre 64 M70 375H&H,24" Krieger barrel,Brown Precision stock,4X Leupold in two piece base and rings.....8 pounds on the nose. A M70 Classic stainless in the Legend pattern McMillan,factory tube and 3X Leupold,Weaver bases and rings, weighs the same.....8 pounds on the money.This rifle "feels" heavier because the barrel contour is heavier; I may have it turned down.But the scale does not lie...8 pounds is 8 pounds.

So,what is the advantage of the Ruger 375 cartridge?
It fits a 30/06 action(neat). It's easier for Ruger to make.....That's it.The rifle itself is better designed because it took a factory 80 years or so to get it right;but it ain't because of the chambering...a 375H&H can be just as light,any time you want it,but probably not as cheaply!

Why it is simple, People don't really intend to shoot them much. I have one light weight .375H&H, the first time I pulled the trigger, it was like getting kicked in the shoulder by and axe. It became my loner for visitors. Now it gets shot by anyone that wants to try out a .375H&H. It wears a sling and great open sights and weights in at 7 pounds and 6 ozs when loaded with 4 rounds of ammo. This rifle is flat out brutal to shoot.

I actually had one friend shoot a full box of shells throught the rifle and lived to bragg about it (I should have sold it to him).

bob,

can you post a pic of your's and can you measure the muzzle diameter for us? curious to see what you are talking about here.

thanks.

JS: My barrel is .711 at the muzzle,24" and .816 at the forend.It could safely be lighter.I suspect the Ruger African contour is lighter still.No reason that contour could be not duplicated on a H&H as well.

As to recoil, well,no 375 is designed for long strings of shots.But the Brown Precision stock is a bit flexible,seems to absorb some recoil along the way. The comb on it and the Echols Legend are both high and straight,bring recoil more or less straight back at you,and to me is more comfortable to shoot than my original pre 64 M70 in its' wood stock.

A lot has to do with stock design,material,etc. The Brown stocked rifle is more comfy to shoot than some 300's 338's and 340 Weatherby's I've owned and messed with.

I do not know how to post pics here,but if you PM me with an email address I can email a pic.

Bob, agree with you on the recipe for a light and lively 375. Mine was a Ruger African fit into either the factory wood - before it became a 404 - or now in a Rimrock stock. But no reason for the H&H variant not to be the base chambering with the same end result. The key IMO is the contour of the barrel, the shape of the stock and the overall weight and balance - that's what Ruger finally got right in the African.

As much as like my 375 Ruger Alaskan for the wet places - it is tough and handy - but not as well balanced as the African with its slim 23" barrel and a slender wood stock. The Alaskan is a brutish sort of tool that gets the job done when conditions get grim, but it's not the stuff fanciful dreams of safaris are made of.

Wildcatter: I agree 100%.When I first picked up a 375 Ruger African I said to myself.."Well, someone finally got it right!"

Wish they'd done it 25+ years ago cause it would have saved me a lot of money!

I would still have my Ruger African,which I liked a lot,but the bolt handle is swept too close to my trigger finger,and pummels it hard every shot.My M70 375's don't do that...and since I have had a "light" 375 for 24+ years now,I guess I am back to the H&H

Interesting you should point that out. Shooting the 404-375 African fractured my trigger finger twice - takes me awhile to figure out when something is too much of a good thing. As soon as it's back from having the broken factory wood stock repaired, I plan to have the bolt handle either straightened or replaced. Straightening the backward sweep angle of the bolt would be a good production modification for Ruger to adopt in the 375s IMHO.

Wildcatter: Exactly....the bolt handle is too close....even with gloves on, it hurts after a couple of shots.We are not in this for the pain

Wildcatter, I was at the SCI show, at the show which followed the intro of the 375 Ruger, and mentioned the bolt handle issue. BobinNH and I had been talking about how it was beating our knuckles. I heaq Ruger guy looked at me like I was from outerspace when I suggested they use a straight down handle.

Al Biesen built a bunch of lw 375 H&H M70's starting in the 50's. He cut the factory barrel to 23" and turned it down. The first he built was for John Jobson who was on the Staff of Sports Afield. Jobson had to plead and threaten him to do it but the result was so nice that many more were made.

Aint no animal gonna be able to tell the difference between the H&H and Ruger once it's been hit.

But some of them prefer to be killed with nostalgic rounds while others prefer the more modern approach.

I have played a good deal with both in that I have made a few in both calibers and wrung them out on the range..One is as good as the other, but I would not run out and sell my good 375 H&H just to buy a Ruger 375...If I were shopping for a .375 I would give the 375 Ruger some consideration, but I pick my gun by the gun and how it handled, how it fit me, and how it looked to me, not one cartridge over the other..

I have hunted extensively with the 375 H&H and it has a certain amount of nostalgia conected to it with me anyway....

.....................Exactly! Determine the rifle that you like the best for feel, handling weight, etc., and then let the cartridge (375 H&H or 375 Ruger), fall where it may.

H & H , you can't improve perfection!

I believe the .375 H&H provides that right combination of comfort and dependable game getting performance.

In my books, a marginal velocity increase such as that offered by the .375 Ruger will not make any measurable difference in the real world of hunting. Having said that, I have found a significant difference in the level of recoil between the two cartridges.

In my experience a significant difference in recoil usually translates into a significant difference in performance on game as well

.........Yes you can!.......The H&H cartridge "itself" maybe close to perfection all-right, but many H&H makers still make those heavier, longer and pig like handling rifles like the one I once owned.

Three 375 H&H owners that I know, wish they had a 40" to 42" OAL and a lighter rifle. But, they don`t wish to spend the money needed to shorten the barrels and/or change the stocks......That`s perfection?

Sako caught on by introducing their 370 Sako. Whether one likes that particular cartridge or not, is another matter. The point is, is that they offer their 370 Sako, in a sweeter handling and lighter 21" tubed, shorter OAL rifle.

Perfection or close to it, comes from both ends of the spectrum. The cartridge is only one end!

When I see more 375 H&Hs from the factory, which are similiar in length and weight to the Ruger Africans and Alaskans, then imo, that`ll be closer to perfection.

Hunted with 375 H&H for many years mine a is custom Ruger No. 1. Also very easy to reload fore and cheaper than factory ammo!

Can't say anything about 375 Ruger, but their is just something about a 375 H&H thats hard to beat1 You don't stay around since 1912 unless your good!

+1, My 375 H&H Sako 85 SS is a light and very accurate gun. It is nice to shoot and carry. This one will never be replaced by a heavier rifle.

If the .375 H&H is too heavy and long, shooters should get that other piece of perfection the 9.3X62. The so-call .370 magnum is ballistically nothing more than a hot loaded 9.3X62. My 20" barreled CZ 9.3 with less than maximum loads is very close to the published .370 SAKO in velocity.

Your 20" tubed 9.3 CZ is a real nice pkg.

Rationally, you're probably right. But all these little details add up to confidence in the rifle in your hands when the time to get close to DG and pull the trigger comes.

Trusting the rifle and cartridge as I lined up the scope on a brown bear at 35 yards or a Cape buffalo inside 70 allowed me concentrate on the shot and not worry about the results. Ruger or H&H, shooter's choice IMHO.

I gotta correct an earlier post; my Classic weighs 9 pounds;not 8, with a 3X leup,and Weaver bases and rings.I was correct about my other LW 375;it's 8 pounds.I just misread the scale.Sorry.

After I got off deer stand yesterday, I stopped by the gunstore I frequent and weighed two 375Ruger Africans.One went 8.5 pounds with rings and no scope;the other weighed 8 pounds with no rings and no scope(naked).By the time you add scope and rings to the Ruger African, you are over 9 pounds.

But the stock feels so trim,and it's so nicely balanced, it feels lighter.Still one of the best feeling factory 375's I've run into.

I dunno guys. I grew up with an H&H and shot more than my fair share of moose with it. Great caliber. No complaints at all. But now I only own a Ruger 375 and a 375 Wby built on a Dakota action. Neither have been on a hunt yet but it is the Ruger I grab for trips to the range. It is simply a sweet handling rifle, perhaps that is why I enjoy it so much.
Could live with an H&H and not know the difference but if I were buying new would opt for the Ruger.
Make matters worse last two moose were shot with my 9,3 double. Go figure, lol.

...............That`s the whole point. It`s not just the 375 Ruger round, it`s the rifle too.

A few (in the minority), prefer the shortened barrels and shorter OALs from the Africans/Alaskans, the better handling, and "without losing" a thing ballistically to the longer H&Hs. That`s exactly what the 375 Ruger does. That was the goal of Hornady and Ruger in the first place.

In my view, why carry around more rifle length, when one can get the same longer H&H ballistics from a rifle 5" and 6" shorter, as is the case with the 20" tubed Alaskan version!!! That`s why I own the Alaskan.

I didn`t get if for Africa. I instead got it specifically for moose, bison, and the big bears on this continent.

I forgot to mention that Sako 85 Kodiak comes with a 21 1/4" barrel in .375 HH it have a laminated stock. I have never shot one, so i don�t know how the velocity is compared to a 24 3/8" barrel. But the weight is quite ok, it is light, but my 85 SS is still lighter (which I prefer).
You can look it up at www.sako.fi

.............That 375 H&H Sako 85 Kodiak, which I guess is also available in the 370 Sako, is a sweet looking and no doubt a fine handling rig. It won`t quite match a 20" 375 Ruger in velocity, but it`ll still get `er done with no problems at all.

If I were wanting another 375, I`d really consider that one.

And, as you imply, the subjective feel of a rifle often means more than exactly how much it weighs.

I'd like to own a 375 or 416 Ruger. However, as I don't need one and already have adequately heavy calibers and adequately light rifles, I reckon I don't much need either.

BS,

The advantage of a shorter barrel is one of the easiest changes one can make to a rifle. If I should ever wish to shorten the 24" barrel on my H&H to 20" the whole M70 Classic will be 40 3/4" in total length. It's really pretty simple. However, I already have a short action, 20" barreled Ruger chambered for a 375 wildcat which pushes 270 grain bullets at 2400 and 300 grainers at 2300. I might even be able to get more safely but what I get seems to be enough for my uses.

BS,

The advantage of a shorter barrel is one of the easiest changes one can make to a rifle. If I should ever wish to shorten the 24" barrel on my H&H to 20" the whole M70 Classic will be 40 3/4" in total length. It's really pretty simple. However, I already have a short action, 20" barreled Ruger chambered for a 375 wildcat which pushes 270 grain bullets at 2400 and 300 grainers at 2300. I might even be able to get more safely but what I get seems to be enough for my uses. [/quote]................Yes! I did stipulate and acknowledge earlier, that the 375 H&H barrels could be cut down to 20" with an overall rifle length of around 40.75" or so to match the Alaskan`s length.

But the fact remains, that there are no new 375 H&Hs "off the racks" that come as is from the factories with 20" barrels. The closest is the Sako 85 Kodiak with its 21.5" er. That means the rifle, regardless of the simplicity, will have to altered, if someone wishes a shorter 375 H&H along with some added expense and inconvenience.

From the factory and off the rack as is, the 375 Ruger`s added powder case capacity, allows for more velocity from a 20" barrel than from a 24" H&H barrel, and it will equal and maybe even exceed a small margin the 25" H&H barrel too. Cut the H&H down to a 20" it`ll lag even more behind the Ruger.

From my 20" Alaskan.........2808 fps w/270 gr Horn SP; 87 gr H-4350
3016 fps w/225 gr Horn SP; 79.8 gr RL15

Haven`t loaded or chrony a 300 grainer yet, which I really have no need to do for my use.

Not bad uh?? A shorter barrel, a shorter rifle, with equal or better muscle, as is,,,and right off the racks. No futher modifications required.

375 Ruger - The H&H in a better package. Don't need to go faster as shooting the 338, 375 and 458 win mag is all my 160 pound frame can comfortably stand. I packed on twenty pounds with my cheese and peanut diet over the past twenty five years after leaving the service. To me that is why the 375 and 458 win mag do the bulk of killing in africa. You are not fighting the gun and are able to stay focused on shot placement. There is a hot run for the ultra mags and the Lott. Let'em wipe thier shorts every time they pull the trigger, they will come back to the 375, 470 and the 458 winney after they have the shoulder surgery and hearing aids. Ruger did a smart thing but no one needs to trade in a H&H - you have one of the best tools ever made.

............................H&H is a better pkg? Other than its longer history,, how so? Just because the H&H had a 95 year head start with alot more history, doesn`t make it better. Instead, the Ruger is simply another design form of a 375 caliber and it is not inferior to the H&H by any means. And the 375 Ruger does not need to be proven either. It already has been! I don`t buy this "needs to be proven business!" Proven at what? Shoots the same bullets and is just as accurate.

So as you say! "Because you packed on 20 lbs over the years with a cheese and peanut butter diet, that is why the "375 and 458 Win Mag" do the bulk of the killing in Africa"???? OOOOOH!...OOOOOKAAAY! If you say so!!!

And BTW! I stay very focused when using the Ruger, with excellent shot placement and without fighting the gun. However at your present 160 lbs, (140 lbs in the service?), you may have a problem in that area??? And if or when I wipe my shorts, need shoulder surgery or a hearing aid, go back to the 375 H&H, the 470??? (now that`s funny) :D, or get a 458 Winney, you`ll be the first to know!

Grab yourself another beer! You haven`t had enough yet tonight!......

More difference between Ginger and Mary Anne, but either would be OK. Take your pick and enjoy.


375 Ruger on left, 375 H&H on right, 30-40 Krag in center for comparison

So,seems to me what has been established by this thread is:

1)The 375 Ruger in the African and the Alaskan are a pretty nice blend of a great cartridge and rugged,reliable rifles in an "over the counter" package at a price point most everyone can afford.(Although IMHO the synthetic stock on the Alaskan absolutely sucks,necessitating the cost of replacing it with a "real" stock.)

2) What one cartridge will do, the other will do,fractional differences in velocity notwithstanding.

3)Setting aside cost for a moment,the "advantages" of "lighter/shorter" for the 375 Ruger are a myth.

4)You can take a 375 Ruger to Africa if you don't mind not being able to get ammo (yet).You are probably OK in Alaska.I dunno.....

5)The 375 Ruger may unseat the 375H&H at some point in time,but it's doubtful it's gonna happen anytime soon.

6) Squeeze seems to be the only one who really cares about 20" barreled 375's and 2800 fps with a 270 gr bullet

Personally,when custom smiths like D'Arcy Echols start chambering for the Ruger as a regular item,and I can get ammo anywhere I go, I'll start paying attention......till then.....the H&H still reigns supreme!

Bob, IMO you pretty covered and ended this discussion. Well said my friend.

Dober

I would pick 375 H&H for the sole reason that you could buy ammo all over the world.

...............#1)....."I like" the Hogue stock! It`s fine for me and very good for my large hands!....#2) Yes The velocity doesn`t matter that much in the field, as I`ve always stated.....#3)Advantages of lighter/shorter barrel a myth?....Absolute Horse-Puckey when it comes to the 375 Ruger!!....The myths are?.....In ballistic performance? Nope that can`t be right. Cut any H&H barrel down to 20", the 20" 375 Ruger will smoke the H&H by a good 120 fps if not more.....Another myth? 5" to 6" shorter rifles don`t handle better? BUNK! So that can`t be right!.......What exactly are these shorter and lighter myths?.....#4)Didn`t get the 375 Ruger to go to Africa, so I won`t have an ammo issue.......#5) The Ruger round as Hornady says; "wasn`t developed to un-seat the H&H!......#6)Even though the Ruger has better velocity capablities which is trivial, nevertheless, it`s still a fact........#7) Don`t care about any custom "gunsmiths", let alone D`Arcy Echols, as to whether or not they would choose to build or own a 375 Ruger or not. Gunsmiths and their opinions, have absolutely no influence or bearing on any decision as to which cartridge I own or may own...............Maybe for you though!

Though the H&H, does reign supreme in "ONLY" two categories. Factory ammo availability in many parts of the world (but nevermind its 95 year head start over the Ruger). But, I haven`t read or heard of anyone yet, who has been unable to use their 375 Ruger while in Africa, nor read about any 375 Ruger owners who could not get their brass or factory ammo. Maybe in some small, distant and secluded town somewhere it could be an issue, but that won`t apply to most owners and certainly not to me.....In the second category of course, it does "reign supreme" in the minds of those, who "emotionally" feel they need some history, some nostalgia, or some other type of historical or classic significance built in to a rifle cartridge.

Stating as a former H&H owner. Other than those two above categories alone which are more justified, the H&H has no advantage over the Ruger in any other category!,,,,,Zip,,,,Zero,,,,Nada.........

Oh yeah! I forgot one! The H&H does have the capacity for one more round in the magazine and chamber, but with a 3+1 that the Ruger has, I really don`t consider that a dis-advantage for any N/A big game. If one needs five rounds to get `er done in N/A, that`s not saying too much for the one needing the five.

Can`t speak for anywhere else, but interestingly my dealer (the owner), tells me that new 375 Rugers are outselling all new 375 H&Hs combined in both his stores by a 3 to 1 margin. Some are even trading in their older H&Hs for the Ruger.

I guess all that history and nostalgia is kinda wearing off a little.

I will stick with my old H&H, but I don't believe its one bit better then the 375 Ruger and certainly has nothing at all to offer over the Ruger, quit the contrary as a matter of fact...

What I really think is folks who own a rifle and like it just get upset when something better comes along and they all get their shorts in a wad..:)

I accept the .375 H&H for what it is and the new kid on the block for what it is and that is one damn fine caliber. I will keep my old outdated, nostalgic, poorly designed case, well used .375 H&H because it has served me so well over the years and I have about 3000 rounds of ammo for it, dies and whatever. I don't need to improve on it..and yes, I am such a gun whore that I might even sell it and if I do I will make another as I have so much ammo, but if someone bought it and the ammo then I would go with the new kid on the block, the 375 Ruger..its a dandy.

..............Yep! If one has an H&H, is happy with it, and is buried in H&H ammo, H&H dies and so on, I wouldn`t trade for a 375 Ruger either.

But it does seem as though, that the 375 Ruger is kinda like the Sarah Palin to many die-hard H&H owners who "may" and more than likely, have some built-in resentment for the new round.....In that, this new round (3 years old now), has gained more popularity in such a short period of time, than any other cartridge in history; (a Boddington paraphrase; not mine).

The 375 Ruger primarily targets new 375 buyers, and those who may wish to trade-in their H&Hs.

IMO part of what is pushing the 375 Rugger sales is the package. IMO the feel is right and I can't that of any H&H's that I've seen in a long time. Excepting for maybe the 700 SPS and XCR or HCR or whatever it is. And or the #1.

Point being if people are trading in their old H&H's IMO its cause of the rifle and not the round.

Both rounds are very good and very capable.

Dober

..........That`s exactly what I did!......It`s not just the cartridge. More importantly, it is the whole package. I traded primarily for the rifle itself, the 375 Ruger cartridge just happened to follow along.............Dammit! Woe is me!

I COMPLETELY agree with #1 and #2.

#3 doesn't make any sense in most people's world - cost is always a factor and usually a major one. Also, lighter/shorter being better is mostly personal opinion and has nothing to do with myths.

#4 is often mentioned and I am sure it happens but would not stop me from taking a 338Fed or 375Ruger to Africa. If I have to buy or borrow ammo, my rifle may like it or it may not. If my luck was that bad it probably would not. In either case, IMO it would be better to just borrow the outfitters "loaner" rifle. It would be interesting to here from our safari outfitters on how often it occurs.

D'Arcy Echols makes awesome rifles - no doubt as evidenced by a long waiting list and prices north of $10K. His chamberings are only a reflection of what his customers want. His customer base is a very small minority of hunters. Ruger is not going after that piece of the pie. But, I would guess that if asked to make a 375Ruger, he would.

The fact of the matter is that for on-game performance, there is NO difference. You can get both in as light a package as you want. If you want a really light 375(H&H or Ruger), get a Rem700 magnum action, have it rebarreled with a thin contour and put it in an EDGE stock. I can do the same with a Win70 too but it will weigh slightly more. I've shot both and there isn't any difference in recoil or lethality - given the same barrel length, stock design and weight.

RH

The 375 Ruger is not on D'Arcy's list of common calibers however he did recently make one for a Zambian PH to use as his camp loaner. That PH is a very knowledgeable rifle user who uses the best equipment he can get.
At last year's SCI convention I also talked with a Zambian wildlife researcher who was also planning on buying a 375 Ruger and in their case it was a matter of price for performance. And that is something Ruger has always done well.
I also hear that Ruger ammo is starting to show up in many African countries.
Here in Alaska folks are still trading in their 375 H&H for Rugers and this past week I've seen two MkX/Whitworths for sale for 1/2 of what new Rugers cost.
People are voting with their wallets

I've always heard that "light" in an H&H, as in the specimens mentioned above, was a negative in respects other than carrying around. What a fickle bunch we are, eh? (I have it on good authority - in the form of a 270+ pound, 6' 5" friend- that those light Rems, while great to stalk with, can be hell when fired repeatedly in pursuit of whales. Very effective, but there is a cost at both ends.)

Dober[/quote]

I've always heard that "light" in an H&H, as in the specimens mentioned above, was a negative in respects other than carrying around. --- but there is a cost at both ends.) [/quote]

Recoil lasts but for a fraction of a second - while gravity is forever.

The recoil of the 375 is over rated and is no more than that of a heavy 12 ga shotgun load.

...........Then I should really worry, when I start hunting whales,,,,,and shooting at them repeatedly too!!!!!??? Quite an analogy. I`ll have to remember that when the next time I go on a hog hunt. Those hogs might start lookin like whales!

Bring the whales on!!

Hell uh????.....Have your big friend try 40 (hot loaded) rounds (on the bench), using 500 grainers from a 460 Wby sometime and using NO lead sled. My (big mouthed, deep pocketed) rich buddy bet me that I couldn`t do it regardless of what I wore. I took him up on it. He loaded up 40 rounds of his max 500 gr loadings and then using his un-scoped rifle with no more than 60 seconds between shots (in order to get it all in between the range breaks), I proceeded to win 50 crispy 100 dollar bills or $125 per shot!...More than paid for the Ruger, the scope + a few other little goodies, including the shoulder ointment which I had in my range bag to begin with.

Helps to have dumb rich friends that love to bet. Keeps the costs low.

I`ve never seen or have done myself, a continous repetition of shots exceeding three at any given time in the field. A lighter rifle in a 375 Ruger or H&H, is a piece of cake, with no cost on either end from my standpoint.

It's not a "he's better or lesser than" deal in any way. (Though your example of personal machismo was pretty impressive, at least until you mentioned the money.) I'm only commenting on what real people say. His perspective is that of a fellow who has had no small quantity of experience with the big rifles - although he wields the smaller stuff very effectively. I would hasten to add that he also would probably put a large majority of folks to shame with rifle skills from a moving boat at targets of momentary and moving opportunity. That takes no small level of skill to excel at. And he manages quite handily with a handgun too; same basic scenario. IOW, he's no piker, yet he has commented more than once about the increased level of recoil that the light Remington has over the M70 and how one more quickly realizes a recoil headache from the lighter weapon, something I've never heard from him about any of the shotgunning he does with 12 or 10.

I'm not making a judgement either way about the weight on these rifles. Light obvious recoils more than a heavy, and that can be okay, especially from the carry aspect. But the recoil of any light 375 has often been the source of comment. I'm only adding to the obvious. We, hunters collectively, ask for certain things like lighter rifles, bigger cartridges, beltless cases, etc, only to realize that sometimes that which we had was really no worse in some ways and better in others than what we get. Seems fickle to me. And I'm not immune.

If I didn't already have enough 375 calibers as well as other stuff nearly as big as well as bigger, I imagine one of my favorite rifles, the Ruger M77 chambered appropriately would be one I'd look closely at. But I seriously doubt that I'd find anything spectacularly outstanding about one that wasn't quite balanced by another, chamberings notwithstanding.

I've always heard that "light" in an H&H, as in the specimens mentioned above, was a negative in respects other than carrying around. --- but there is a cost at both ends.) [/quote]

Recoil lasts but for a fraction of a second - while gravity is forever.

The recoil of the 375 is over rated and is no more than that of a heavy 12 ga shotgun load. [/quote]


Actually not sure how my name got in this, by accident I spect as I feel that most 375's are very user friendly and have spent more than a fair bit of time in chuck colony and pd fields sporting one.

Heck of a yote round I say...

Dober

My Ruger 375 is light and you make a good point. I tossed on a set of warne QR rings and a Leupold 2-7X scope. I just had to keep the option of using those better than average iron sights ruger put on the rifle. The CZ I remember handling in a gun store had a much broader rear sight but was beefy and solid. Firing the 375 H&H Winchester I do notice a wieght diffence and recoil. Ruger went and put a new soft red rubber pad on instead of the older red pad of yesteryear to help, I say this is marginal. I have an old red spare in the gun box to make it look like its Ruger stable mates.

Compaired to my origanal African - They vastly improved the sights, converted from push feed to CRF, and Ruger cleaned up the stock to metal points better from the MK I. My 458 MK I needed glass bedding to head off some splitting on the tang. They also gave it a non gloss finish - another field plus.

To an earlier request - 375 Ruger and 375 H&H would have no detectable difference on the recieving end. The H&H case being that old I suspect was built to handle cordite as was the 303, hence the long taper to handle the propellant strands and to prevent any case sticking issues as pressure problems my arise in very hot conditions. The belt being used to ensure head space uniformity as the case has a very timid shoulder, it eliminate the rimmed cartriage feed issues and also is robust enough to handle modern pressures. The ruger is a more balanced case built for todays powders around the same ballistics as the time proven H&H. I like it and so I bought one.

Clearest explanation of the differences, if there are any, and of the reason to buy one or the other 375.

Squeeze: Lost baggage and arriving at destinations without your gear is a fact of life...it happens frequently.If it has not happened to you,you ain't traveled to hunt very much....My first brown bear hunt was held up a day while they located my rifles in Alberta somewhere;next trip the rifles were on the tarmack in Ketchikan while I was in Sitka.....I went to Manitoba,while my gear (and ammo) wnet to Alberta.....there have been other examples I could give.......

And "no" I am not gonna use an outfitters rifle if I can buy factory ammo for mine......why any rifleman would be satisfied with using an unfamiliar rifle unless he absolutely had to is beyond me....

I may be jaundiced from being around too long,but I have been hearing this "newer is better" stuff for too many years,and how things like the 270,30/06,375,etc were going to be obsoleted by the latest "in cartridge" for decades....and it never happens....most of the newcomers wind up eating the dust from the older stuff....my prediction for the 375 Ruger is the same.It ain't going to overtake the H&H unless other manufacturers of rifles and ammo jump on the bandwagon, too.

Other than the fact that it's "new",I see utterly no advantage to it for a traveling hunter...YMMV

I recall reading some old gun magazines that I bought at a yard sale many years ago. Seems there was this new cartridge called a "three hunnert magnum" that was so much better that it was going to be only a short time before the .308 Win and 30-06 disappeared...

Still waiting...

My first .375 went down the road because it was just too heavy (a Brno 602). My current rifle is lighter and handier. A .375 H&H Sako with 22 inch barrel, McMillan stock, old style Sako rings and Leupold 3x scope weighs 7lb 7 oz -- I think it is pretty handy.

I have not held the Ruger rifle mentioned above, but it sounds just as handy (if not more). It is nice to see lighter factory rifles available in .375 bore. As noted above, much of this thread is about factory rifles and not the cartridge per se.

Overall though, I have to agree with BobinNH that sticking to a common cartridge so that one can get factory ammo is not a trivial consideration.

John

If that line of thought was common we would all still be shooting muzzle loaders.

I bought a 375 Ruger as I liked the Alaskan rifle.... it is light, designed well, and the price is right.

......................Bobin,,,,,,,,,,,As I previously mentioned, baggage handlers and airlines are not discriminatory, and play no favorites when it comes to which rifles, which calibers and which gear is lost and what gets through ok to the destination. Your 375 H&H rifle and ammo, can get lost as easily as a 375 Ruger rifle with that ammo.

So what are you going to do, if your rifle and ammo don`t arrive in time for your hunt?? NOT HUNT??? As for me, I`ll gladly take my chances with a backup rifle owned by the PH (as they all have them for just such emergencies), AND THEN I`LL,,,,"GET FAMILIAR",,,,WITH THAT RIFLE. It`s called adapting and overcoming when things don`t go to plan!!! Play with it for awhile and make sure it`s in great working order, sight it in to the desired zero and go on the hunt! I`ve done just exactly that!

Secondly, as far as your "newer is better" comment. I never stated that the 375 Ruger was going to displace or upstage the 375 H&H. The `ol 270, 30-06, 375 H&Hs will never be displaced, AS they shouldn`t be.

However, you cannot deny the fact, that the 375 Ruger since its intro about 3 years ago, has gained more in popularity, in such a short period of time, than any other round in US history (per Boddington, not me). Go gripe at him if you happen to disagree!!.....You also cannot deny, that as a previous poster on this thread has stated, that more PHs in Africa are getting 375 Ruger rifles and that Hornady factory ammo is currently being made available in many African areas or provinces, which BTW confirms EXACTLY, my past conversations with the sales staff at Hornady, "that in fact" Hornady was securing the necessary permits for their ammo distribution in Africa. Unlike the other newcomers in the past that fell by the wayside, you would not to wager that the 375 Ruger will do the same as well. You`ll lose that wager very handily!

Other manufacturers joining the 375 Ruger bandwagon??? How about Legacy Sports chambering their M1500 (whenever those get here) in the 375 Ruger? "Betcha" that others will follow given more time. Though if not, then so what!

At some point SOONER OR LATER my friend Bobin,,,,,ALL of this business about the "lack of ammo" in Africa and worldwide will dissipate, as the H&H fans will not be able to "use" ammo availability as an excuse against the 375 Ruger anymore....At some point in the future,,,,there will be no more "what if" scenarios when it comes to ammo availability when traveling overseas or domestic travel....At some point,,,,,questions about the prove-ability of the 375 Ruger cartridge will have completely dissipated and come to pass, if not done so already for the most part.....And at some point,,,,,many (not all), will not view as much or associate as much, the 375 H&H in terms of nostalgic, of historical significance, of classic and so on.....To many in the furture, the only thing the H&H will have,,,,is a 95 year seniority. For those that want that and need that in a cartridge, then go for it!

So after all this comes to pass, (which the evidence in that direction is clearly and factually un-deniable), WHAT ARE YOU and all the other H&H fans GONNA SAY THEN??? What are you gonna say, when all the "so-called" 375 Ruger dis-advantages run out? Whatcha gonna say then, when Ruger ammo is plentiful in Africa and in many other parts of the world? What are you going to say when other manufactures such as HOWA, start chambering and offering the 375 Ruger? If others don`t, that still won`t stop this cartridge`s snowball`n affects from getting larger.

If 375 H&H owners are happy and satisfied, I certainly don`t advocate trading them in for a 375 Ruger, although quite a few already have done so.

Five or ten years from now, when threads like this involving this very subject matter arise, I wonder what the H&H fans will say after all of the excuses have fallen by the wayside and are no more.

Can`t use the ammo availability issue anymore!! Can`t use the prove-ability issue anymore!! Certainly can`t use an accuracy issue!!

By then, it will simply all come down to a personal rifle choice chambered in both of these cartridges, and how much creedence if any, any new 375 buyers and existing 375 owners will put in a cartridge in terms of seniority, nostalgia and classic.

Whatcha gonna do then??................. .....

Squeeze:.....I don't give a shidt who says what....I don't care what Boddington or anyone else says cause I don't listen to Boddington,and I know enough about rifles and cartridges to make up my own mind.....I don't care how popular you think it is,or how much better it is...you use it if you want and I'll use the H&H....

It's a newbie...you want it, have at it.I could care less because I got over jumping on every new cartridge bandwagon in the world years ago, after I grew up.....the [bleep] thing is not a cure for cancer...it pushes bullets out a bore and kills big game animals.Big friggin deal.....and the only one that loads it is Hornady..I wouldn't go around the corner to shoot a BG animal on an important hunt with a Hornady...

I think it sucks...you happy now?

Bob, breath deep, count to ten, place BigSqueeze on ignore and go plan your next hunt. This internet banter about "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" differences can be hard on the blood pressure.

..........You mad there a little Bobin? Maybe a little denial?Such anger!!!!

The facts that the Ruger; excuse me, the "NEWBIE`s" success, are factual, whether you choose to believe it or not. It`s not a matter of what I think about the Ruger`s popularity. It is what it is!! And I don`t jump on every newbie cartridge bandwagon either. In fact, hardly any!....A cure for cancer too? You have such an equitable and credible analogy!

It`s good to know that "you wouldn`t go around a corner with a Hornady!" Good! I`ll load some up later then!

Traditional cartridge folks like you, who are set in their ways, is fine! But, there is alot of resentment out there among people, when a very successful newcomer comes along, which directly threatens a beloved and traditional `ol standby. That`s obvious by the tone and language in your last post.

I owned an H&H for many years, so it`s not like I have no experience with the H&H. It is a great and reliable round.

So in summary, as these threads pop up now and again, we`ll still see and read the arguments and the opinions for and against, including the usual ammo availability overseas and elsewhere issue, or that the 375 Ruger has not been proven yet, or it hasn`t the history and tradition like the vaunted H&H and so on.

But sooner or later as you well know, or wish to deny, (which is what really it your nerve), is that most of the usual arguments against the Ruger round by the H&H fans will simply fade away with enough time. That is what is really bothersome to a few if not many more.

Hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

Bye Squeeze..you're on ignore ...not missing much as you never really have anything intelligent or interesting to say....same banter about 20" 300 mags and shorter/lighter.......to say I won't be missing anything is a dramatic understatment.I get better information from the Sunday comics than anything you've ever posted.......like most things that originate in California,there's a lack of substance and rationale thought;the novelty wears off quickly,and dgenerates into a landslide of senseless blather.... I should know better than to think anything really "bright" can come out of Anaheim..

You really are not very good at anything other than making fun of people,and I doubt that are very intelligent at all..kinda like a big clown with nothing to say.....matter of fact you should change your handle toBozo the Clown...it fits better than "Bigsqueeze".

Oh, and don't forget to catch the next episode of Western Extreme...you'll learn a lot from those guys.BTW, what's your favorite part? Where they shoot the exploding arrow into the gas cans to light the big fire?That should give you a pile of jollies .....lots of appeal to someone with the intellect of a 5 year old at the circus....Or someone who moans and wails cause his barrel is too long or he has to pull a bolt back another 3/8 of an inch.

.but I guess that's where you get your experience...the boob tube or the next exciting episode of Boddington's gear test articles.....how's it feel to get all your info second hand? Moron...anyway, enjoy the "ignore status"...you richly deserve it.BTW I have a 375 Ruger being built on an Encore with a 12" barrel...wanna try it out?

Good Bye!

In reading the above post, I thought I might stick my toe in the water.
First off, I work for a very large manufacturing company that sell's products all over the world and I am part of the management team. Saying that I have seen some of the most inept SOB's running companies that have no idea what the customer wants.They dont listen to them and they really dont care. Its about numbers,sales and bonuses. They are blinded by thier positions. Many have never spent anytime in the trenches with the product they represent. This is the state of American Manufacturing and or business in general, and it will kill us off in time, if we dont change our priorities.

So, when I see post revolving around a manufactures new offering, I take it with a grain of salt, because i have been bitten by this more then once myself. You see, my job is to get you to buy the latest and greatest and convince you that its going to be better, faster etc. So dont get suckered in on new products! and never, ever, ever buy something in its first year of production.

The .375 Ruger may very well be the exception. It appears to match H&H performance, can fit into a standard length Mauser Action and has a good variety of bullets available for reloading.
But only time will tell.

I do know this much, when it comes to products that have to perform, people dont like to change from what works and the .375 H&H works and on top of that, it does have an element of Romance built around it. That, is almost impossible to beat!

I do hope that the .375 Ruger is successful and in ten years we will know if thats the case.

As far as trusting a Outfitters back up gun, you have to be crazy! I have had the luxury of knowing and growing up around several Outfitters in BC and if you think i would trust an old Springfield that has been bouncing around behind the seat of a pickup Truck on dirt roads for five years, your nuts. Unless you have a lot of ammo and time to test it and correct it.LOL.

Hell, I have seen them breaking green horses a week before hunters arrived, float planes so heavy with Gear or Moose they are sinking at the dock and Jeeps that didnt have brakes because the roads were so bad the brake lines were toast.

How many do you really think shoot the back up rifle every year?

I have to agree with "bobinNH" on many of his points and would like to add a some. Every couple of years the "New and Improved" cartridges come out with manufacturers quoting same or better performance in shorter actions or better performance with shorter barrel lengths etc, etc. The WSM's,SAUM's,RUM's and others I am sure I have missed. Ballistics on all these cartridges perform nearly the same as Roy Weatherby did with his factory loaded ammunition 50 years ago!! The magazine writers pump up the new and improved to sell magazines, guns and bullets thats what they get paid to do and I think is great. The more guns sold is great for everyone down the retail chain and great for our 2nd amendment rights. If some of the other gun manufacturers start loading the 375Ruger in numbers then the cartridge will stay around for a long while, I hope it does. I spend a lot of time at the range and I have not seen a lot of Rugers on the line and the few I have owned or seen shooting have not been the most accurate guns. I hope Ruger has put more quality into there barrels than they have in the past. Great ballistics are one thing actually hitting your target is everything !!! I have two 375H&H myself both weighing in at reasonable weights 8.2lbs and the other 8.4lbs. both are scoped with a Zeiss Diavari 1-6X42 and with 24 + 25 1/2" barrels. I personally think the 375 H&H is the greatest all purpose large game cartridge that has ever been made! Even though the Ruger is getting some legs it will never achieve "Greatness" as the 375 Holland and Holland has at least that's my biased opinion.

This is a fantastic forum/site, it is great reading all the information that's given by many of the extremely knowledgeable members--HAPPY HUNTING EVERYONE !!!!!!

Bob say hi to Denver for me, I hope both of you are freezing your Nutt's off up there in Cow-Hampshire

Dino

................On ignore? I`m so touched!...................I can see thru my posts anyway, that I refrain from the name calling as well as any home state and city references. But I can see now that it is not beneath you to engage in such im-maturity during any debating process where there are disagreemnets or varying opinions.

If you think you can get more info from the comics, be my guest! Bozo the Clown too uh? Did you watch him growing up?

Agree or disagree, it seems as though you ran out of any logical and intelligent debating skills through your name calling, ranting, state and city referencing.

All of my info second hand? Oh and a "moron" too uh? Hardly, after 40 years of field experience!....But I do read various writer`s opinions, pass on their info and am able make my own judgements. Don`t watch too much of "Western Extreme." Is that a good show?

A 12" 375 Ruger uh? SURE! I`ll be very happy to try it out! Would be alot of fun! But wait a minute! You say that I`m on your ignore list, and yet you invite me to try out your Encore??? Now, I`m, really touched and would absolutely love too!

So now that I`m on "ignore" from you, does this mean you won`t respond to this post? Do or don`t, it won`t matter. But regardless, I`ll wish you the best for the holidays anyway!

It amazes me how protective some folks can get over a caliber..I have been stomped, gilflurted and stringhaultered because I consider the holy grail calibers like the 45-70 and the 243 pieces of crap on big game animals from elk up! so what, why get your shorts in a wad over something as trivial as a caliber...

I have a lot of respect for Bob H and he knows his business IMO..I get the impression he also is an avid fan of the .375 H&H and I sure won't fault him there!

Me, I like both calibers, I agree with all the posts in part or totally, but in the long run, I don't really care one way or the other who likes what, it's all I can do to keep myself in control of calibers and guns, I keep having these changes of mind...maybe its a curmudgeon thing..I, even on ocassions, put my good guns up for sale, and I still don't know why I do these things, I am a gun whore, and have no loyalty to wood and steel.:) fortunatly they don't usually sell and I breath a deep breath of gratitude to you all...but when they do I ALWAYS later regret selling them..:) Usually when I find a good horse I can't afford or the grandkids need another horse the rifles disapear..

I will probably keep my 375 H&H English rifle.

I agree with bobin on this one. I'm a young guy getting ready to buy my first 375 and the ruger isn't even a consideration. In my opinion nothing cool about it, or advantageous. The 375 H&H has it all to me. An awesome looking tapered case, the belt, the romance, and it speaks of better times, for hunting anyway.

I think all these new calibers make it harder to find factory ammo for any random caliber cause it would be way to hard to stock everything, so they'll probably have the newest, latest, and greatest at the expense of other stuff.

I realize it helps sell more stuff, and more people employed in the hunting-shooting industry is a great thing, but I won't be the sucker.

Much as I would like to try the .375 Ruger, if you look up "smooth" in the big Oxford dictionary there is a picture of a guy shucking H&H cases through a Model 70.

Hornady and Double Tap load 375 H&H loads with 270 gr bullet @ 2800 fps. I chronographed the 270 gr 375 ruger in my 23" barrel african and its about 2790 fps. So an H&H loaded to it's potential is pretty much the same as the ruger in same length barrels, and the 375 ruger is about loaded to it's potential already.

So basically, no difference in ballistics. the ruger is supposed to burn at a slightly different burn rate than the H&H, so there might be a better powder for the 375ruger that isn't being tested with this cartridge yet, but that's just speculation.

There for, you should choose the caliber based on weather you reload, if nastalgia plays a part, what rifles you like better, or initial cost of the rifle.

2 great cartridges, lots of rifle options. The loony answer - at least 1 of each and let's go hunting!

More sense has never been made on a �cartridge comparison thread. Thanks.

Sense there, too. A lot.

I keep reading about that stainless steel/synthetic 7.5 pound Sako 85 in .375 H&H, is it imported into the US of A?