Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Question for all you lawyers out there...

My buddy Scott F and I were solving the world's problems this evening when it came up that in order to purchase a hunting license or attend school here in Oregon, you have to divulge your Social Security Number. Now, if I remember correctly, the use of the SSN for ID purposes is in direct violation of Federal Law. Can anyone explain how it is possible for the state to get away with this?

Ed, Pa has done the same thing the past couple of years. The explanation I heard here was something about using it to track down "deadbeat dads".<p>I still don't know if it's required here. Last year they asked me and I didn't give it. No problem. This past year the girl at Stuff-mart said it was required. I don;'t think it is. I told her a fib! [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If anyone can answere the question, I'd like to hear it too.
7mm

It is required in Oregon. You don't give your SSN, you don't hunt or fish. My son-in-law has to give his in order to get his EMT licence. No SSN, no licence. <p>I was asked by a Doctor to give my SSN and my wife's SSN before he would treat me. This was for an injury covered by Workers Comp insurance. They had a insurance case number. The Doctor was quite put out when I refused to give the numbers.<p>My SS card, issued somewhere around 1964 states on the bottom, "FOR SOCIAL SECURITY AND TAX PURPOSES-NOT FOR IDENTIFICAON.<p>Someone please explain to me what hunting, receiving medical treatment, or getting an EMT licence has to do with tax.<p>My mother gave me a name, is that no longer any good. I defy anyone to show me another Robert Fairing alive in the world today. I am not a dead beat dad, in fact I have raised other peoples children with no reimbursement of any kind, unless you count the babys I now call grandchildren.<p>So tell me, am I being a Buthead or should I make a stand?

Hey, Canby Man! I live just down the road from you in Redland, so I think we can talk heart-to-heart....<p>Do what I and all my hunting/fishing pards do. Look the little lady straight in the eye and give her an artificial SS number. I have licenses in Wisconsin, Louisiana, New York State, Oregon and Washington with a single SS number, and its made up of whole cloth.<p>In short, don't fight the system -- just run around end!

Sorry Sir, their is another with your identity!
<br>Notice All documents from ANY govt. agency have your name in all capital letters.(check your drivers license)
<br>It does not represent you. It is a nom de gurre (defined as a war name) and not you at all. Courts have no jurisdiction over you the living being, the govnt. created you as a corporation 45 days after your birth certificate was logged into the system. You legally died on that day and are now a corporation/fiction-identity. The all caps you has no rights, it is a SUBJECT of the govnt.
<br>To understand this better, go to www.ptrc.net and click on the link at the bottom of the page "the truth about ID cards.
<br>I have compiled VOLUMES of evidence on this matter, the site mentioned is a good place to start. If you have the courage to learn more TRUTHS about our country and our God given rights let me know and I'll point you in the right direction for your research.
<br>"resistance to tyrants is obedience to God"
<br>ps my state, Nebraska, just started that and I sent them a letter. I told them I will sue them if they keep it up!
<br>Public Law 93-579 Sec 7(a)(1), It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State, or local govt. agency to deny to deny to any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individuals refusal to disclose his ss#.
<br>Title 42 chapter7 subch1 sec 408, whoever discloses, uses, or compels the disclosure of the social security number of any person in violation of the laws of the United States shall be guilty of a felony and shall be fined under Title 18 or imprisoned not more than 5 years or both.
<br>pps no you are not a butt head, you are a patriot like me and yes you MUST take a stand!
<br>God bless!
<br>and God bless America!! (the Republic)

Per the OR 2002 Big Game Manual< Federal and state laws require ODFW to collect the SSN of applicants for hunting and fishing licenses.These laws were enacted as part of a nationwide effort to improve child support compliance.>Yeah right, Won't be long they'll be tattooing it on our forearms,sound familiar?

It is a maxim of law that no new legislation may be enacted which alters or over-writes an existing law. The former law must first be repealed, amended, or revoked.
<br>Kind of makes you wonder what is going on here in the good old land of the free and home of the brave, doesn't it?
<br>My business partner recently ran across an old timer who studied law some 30 or so years ago. he was nearly ready to get his degree when,something happened to a family member and he was forced to quit school and go home to run the farm. A couple years back he turned the farm over to his kids and returned to school but very soon he quit. He said he was just too disguisted to go on. During his early years of study he said there were a certain set of laws which were considered to be untouchable. All other laws were written in accordance and conjunction with these original laws and rules. Upon his return to school he found that these original, carved in stone, precedent laws were being disassembled, altered, and being treated as though they were open for debate and OPINION!
<br>I have always believed that opinion is a problem in the court room. It is not a judges, or jurys, or attorneys job to pronounce any thing resembling opinion. Have you ever heard the words "it is this courts opinion that..."
<br>The court is to determine or discover the facts/truth. Period!!!
<br>Any other form of justice is no justice.
<br>
<br>"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God"
<br>Thomas Jefferson.
<br>ps It is also not the courts duty to try the facts.
<br>Think about it, you cannot try a fact! That's stupid.
<br>They are to discover facts!
<br>The sun comes up in the east, rain is wet. These are facts! Put them on trial and you will be the laughing stock. WHAT ARE THESE PEOPLE DOING????

Ishootem, you sound like a flamming idiot tax protester. Quit your pontificating and take one of the public entities to court and see how illegal they are! Come on, give us a break from all your so-called expertise. I am tired of hearing from the likes of you about what so-called rights you have and what so-called rights the government doesn't have. Go for it or keep quiet ! I have read quite a bit of this kind of crap when served with so called legal papers from a tax protester. He threatened me for withholding taxes from his wife's paycheck. I told him to threaten the IRS and leave me alone. He, like most hot air, drifted away when I called his bluff.

Dear Rolly,
<br>If all you came here to do is hollar, go right ahead, I won't try and stop you.
<br>I will however point out your complete lack of attempt to refute any of the points that I made. I am not saying these things in self defense, you may call me anything you like, it has no effect on me. I am speaking in defense of literally millions of my countrymen who have taken a stand. If anyone has the courage to grab hold of any truth and make a stand, I salute you, and I would never cut you down for it or call you names!
<br>I find it somewhat disconcerting and very disappointing that one of my countrymen and a fellow shooting enthusiast would speak so brashly pertaining to his rights. Government agencies have no rights, only duty(s). That is why their employees are called public servants. The use of the word servant was very deliberate, this word denotes the fact that they have masters. Do you believe these public servants have been granted authority to ignore the law or change law at will? When they do ignore law and do as they please, what does that make them? What do they represent then? NO, they are law officials, and they have sworn an oath to uphold the law.
<br>I have never made any claims of "expertise" as you call it, but I have studied law for many years, and all of my statements are based on FACTS that I have discovered. What are you basing your comments on? Maybe the people who asked the questions I was answering appreciate the time I invested in their freedoms, If you don't, that's your choice. No one is forcing you to read these posts.
<br>I have never protested taxes and I cheerfully pay any legal tax (and even some which aren't legal). Instead, I gain knowledge from the law and present government agencies with facts in a respectable and legal manner. In other words, I do not protest, I object, and when the agency is presented with the truths I have discovered, they always comply with the law. You say shut up and put up. "Take one of these agencies to court" you said. I have never had to. Fact is, they don't want me in court or anyone else who has knowledge, too many witnesses (new students seeking knowledge) and they can't afford bad case history.
<br>I recommend you find a soft spoken elderly retired judge and discuss these points with him. Ask him to tell you of the changes he has seen in his lifetime of service. Ask how these changes have affected him, his beliefs in the system, his feelings about his job/duty, and most importantly, what these changes have done to his compassion and overall love for mankind. I think that you will be suprised by his answers. I believe that you will find he is very grieved in his heart.
<br>Please Rolly, if you or anyone else out there finds proof that my statments are incorrect, add a post to this thread and let everyone know as I am most teachable and willing to adjust my stance in light of new FACTS.
<br>I hope the head of the family that you told "Take your problems to the IRS and get out of my face" did just that because he is right. I hope he used his experience with you as the stepping stone that it was and continued his studies. He may not have had enough facts gathered yet to enforce the truth that he had, but he was right, and I can prove it from the US Code and the Code of Federal Regulations.
<br>
<br>Life is like a box of choc-o-lates"
<br>Forrest Gump's mother

Ishootem,
<br>In case you're curious, I didn't even honor your answer by reading it. Use the courts, get over it or keep quiet.
<br>That is my last comment.

And I suppose nobody gives their SSN# on Form 4473 when they purchase a firearm. Any Tom, Dick and Harry with a good wit of computor sense can get your SSN#. Nothing wrong with giving them the SSN#, the state already has it if you are employed in that state. They already have it if you go to any educational institution in that state. They know what it is, why make it harder on yourself by falsifying official documents by putting a fake number on it?

Dear Rolly
<br>
<br>LOL
<br>
<br>I asked you to provide evidence if any of my points were incorrect. Instead you stick your head in the sand and quit.
<br>You're just what America and liberty needs in time of crisis. Perserverance, dedication, courage, apt to think of others first, the list goes on and on. I'm sure the founding fathers would be very proud of you, their sacrifices obviously mean so much to you.
<br>
<br>"Complacent slaves are next best to uneducated ones"
<br>Council on Foreign Relations

At a Dr's office first visit for a workers comp. claim, I was asked for both my SSN and my wife's SSN. They had a small fit when I refused. Said they HAD to have both to look at my MRI. Give me a break! I bought a CZ 527 several weeks back, did NOT put in my SSN and had less than a one minute approval from Oregon's instant background System.
<br>
<br>I have a friend who has been trying to clean up her credit reports from SSN theft. You can tell me all you want how illegal it is and how easy it is to correct but it has taken her over three years and they can not get a mortgage because of it.
<br>
<br>I for one will NOT give out my SSN to anyone who thinks they want it.

Allen, you have a point there, but just the same I'd rather make them work for it. This is a hunting license for crying out loud. What in the world does the state need your ssn on a hunting license application for?
<br>
<br>I doubt they could connect the dots to you anyway. Look at the INS giving new student visas to dead hi-jackers! The beurocrats aren't the most efficient people in the world.
<br>7mm

Troll, this guy needs to be deleted, Rick check out his profile and send him back under a rock.

I'll second that.

Third ! -- no

Maybe he is a troll, but, would any lawyers here care to look up those laws he said about? Or have any forehand knowledge of those laws? I"m pretty sure it's illegal to DEMAND a social security number.
<br> As far as his profile, yeah, he needs to go. I don't like big daddy's or cop killers.

Hey Rick, do you still have what that guy said? I'm kinda wondering. Could you put it up (leaving him banned of course) so that any lawyer could do the research on that, please? Many thanks.