Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Another Berger VLD failure !

Gee whiz, I have killed both Cape buffalo and grizzly quite readily with bullets that weren't TSX's--and weren't Berger VLD's, either. Who'd guess there were other choices?

Using them on ANYTHING is unnecessary and an invitation to a lost animal. It's just ego at work and the latest fad. Proven big game bullets have always worked and always will. Remember there were fools who hunted Tiger with the 22 HP....it was the "cool tool" of its day.

MD: as for other bullets NOT working, I don't recall saying that. Partitions, Woodleighs and Swifts are also on my short list. A glorified Varmint bullet is not. Probably few if any of these "experts" have never jumped an Elk in the black timber and sure as hell didn't shoot his South end going North or they would not be promoting this crap.
Unlike most I actually read that story on hunting the Red Deer in NZ and, if memory serves me, there was little penetration, explosive expansion, no blood trails, no exit wounds, no major locomotive bones broken....in short the last thing I would want if I were after putting an animal down with both shoulders broken or end to end penetration when required.

I repeat: There is no rational reason for a hunter to use anything but a broad spectrum hunting bullet. As for "not suggesting their use for dangerous game"...come along on an Elk or Mulie hunt within 100 miles of Yellowstone and if you don't see Mr. Griz, it's just cuz you a'int looking. Up in the Gros Ventre last year, it was a dull day if we didn't see a dozen while glassing for Elk.
I don't hear the PHs in Africa suggesting client bringing match bullets for the same reason. Just cause you're chasing an Impala doesn't mean you might not meet a Lion or a Buff.
You keep poppin those little deer and pigs with your glorified varmint bullet, but stay away from things that bite back.
Gump's wisdom never fails............

I am starting to conclude that you have a reading disability. I have read most of the threads on the Campfire about VLD's and nobody has ever suggested using them for shooting elk in the ass, or for dangerous game.

You also evidently didn't comprehend the New Zealand article, as the VLD's exited on most of the deer-sized game, and even on half the 400-pound red stags taken. And they penetrated all the way to the other side on every stag.

VLD's are fine bullets for pronghorn/deer/pigs and work fine on elk in open country--and there are a lot of elk in open country these days. That has been proven over and over again for several years now. They kill quickly, and I don't know of anybody who has lost an animal shot with one, perhaps because only experienced hunter/shooters have used them.

A dozen grizzly a day?

Hunters that feel they must have a bullet to compensate for poor shot placement, ass end of an animal, need to go back to school. If you can't get proper shot placement, pass on the shot. Don't give me the spent so much for the hunt routine, been there done that and passed on a questionable shot as any reasonable hunter should. I have taken quite a few animals in various states and have gone empty handed due to position of the animal at the time. If you can't do that don't hunt.Rick.

I agree totally--but apparently oldman is fond of ass-shooting game, because he mentions it so often.

Yup I kill them, don't really care where the bullet goes in.
I KNOW you'ld ALL pass up a shot at a 400+ point 6X6 because he wasn't standing broadside waiting for you to deploy your bipod, windmeter, computer, spotting scope and whatever else crap you carry on your ATV. Dead is dead, that's the only thing that counts. There are no "rules of engagement" when Elk hunting other than the game laws and no skyline shots.

And for our boy in WNY, where I spent most of my life, we "ass shot" lots of Whitetails because good bucks have this annoying habit of laying up in some nasty blowdown or thicket before sunrise and not moving until after dark. If you kick them out, they usually don't run TOWARD you. As for Mr Griz, suggest you go on a nice backpacking trip in Jellystone in mid July. Get back in about 10 miles and you'll wonder WTF am I doing here with a can of fing pepper spray and some bells. You probably believe their are no Puma in WNY too......

I don't know if you're talking to me, as I don't think I posted on this thread, but on behalf of Griz everywhere, you can KMA, Framis.

JB...in regards to oldman 1942...check out my new signature line!!

Ingwe

Don't give me advice about grizzlies, you pompous twit. I was born and raised in grizzly country in southwest Montana, and have spent plenty of time hunting not only there but in the Bob Marshall Wilderness, and when in my 20's spent a lot of time hiking the backcountry in Glacier Park. Plus I have hunted a lot in grizzly country in four provinces of Canada, as well as Alaska, including the area that has the highest concentration of brown bears anywhere in the state during late summer and early fall, when I was there.

And no, I don't own an ATV, or a hand-held computer or any of "that crap"--except, sometimes, a spotitng scope, which I carry in my daypack. I have managed to keep elk meat in the freezer for 40 years without any of that, or shooting one in the ass.

Given his constant anal fixation, methinks oldman might like to do more to the asses of unsuspecting critters than shoot them with a rifle bullet.

Dooooood....



Ingwe

Oldman - dunno why you're getting so worked up. Barsness wrote about how well they worked on deer sized critters. So did a few others. A couple of my shooting buddies also used them, even before the articles came out. I read & listened. The VLD sounded good and I tried them, on mule deer. Three quick kills later, I'm impressed. They work well on mule deer. They're also accurate. A good bullet and another alternative for us hunters.

What's to get all worked up about?

I've used Barnes & Nosler and other bullets with great results too. Different tools... That's all, just different tools.

Guy

Framis/oldman,

With a post like that & who it was directed at, Rick should ban your sorry azz, muy pronto.

MM

+1

Ingwe

I don't know about that, I've had far worse posts, but I'm not prone of making an idiot of myself with the frequency of noprostate1942.

............`OLDMAN 1942!!!...I must say that you are quite a piece of work. You seem to have more rusticles between your ears than the amount of rusticles eating away at the Titanic!!!!

Invitation to a lost animal you say???......In my experience with the VLDs, that score is 15 to 0 in my favor. 14 hogs which ranged in weight from 165 lbs up to 427 lbs and one bull elk with an estimated weight at nearly 800 lbs. Didn`t lose a one!!! So it would seem to "MOST" logical thinking people (which that particular trait seems to have bypassed you), that your argument, aka an "invitation" as you say to a lost animal, is a useless one based entirely on your own opinion, from which you have absolutely no personal experience. Oh you may hear some here-say from others second hand here and there, but YOU yourself have no experience hunting with the VLDs.....So if you were in a court of law trying to make your case against the VLDs based strictly on your opinions, the judge would laugh your ass right out of court.

As you say, "it`s just ego at work and the latest fad!!! Well! You can call it what you may sir, but my results speak for themselves, as well as the successful VLD results of many others which you choose to blatently ignore!!!

As you go on to stupidly state,,,"there were fools who hunted tiger with a 22. I can see that you have the uncanny ability for "truly" making equal, very "viable" and honest comparisions.

As to the rest oy your post, I have come to the conclusion that you are simply an idiot, but I won`t mind hunting with one such as yourself!

Tell ya what there `Ol Man!!!! Let`s really seperate your opinions vs the true VLD facts and succeses shall we??? I have a proposal for ya!!! Here it is!!!

Let`s you and I go on an elk hunt. You pick the place, the terrain. I`ll use the VLD, the powder and charge of my choosing, and my `lil pip squeak shorty tubed 300 WSM Ruger Frontier compact. I will put up $100K (that`s $100,000 in the form of a cashiers check) based on the following conditions.

#1) That I will fire only one shot out to a maximum distance of 500 yards to drop the bull elk. Would you like there to be a minimum distance??? Not a problem!!!

#2) The elk must drop within a few yards of impact. Shall we say within 20 yards? After all, I don`t want to lose Mr. Elk.

#3) Both of the above conditions must be met and if not,,then YOU get the money! Cashola on the table!!!

4) If I am successful on both counts, then you shall pay me $100K!!!!!!!!

Now how`s that for an invitation sir??? You seem to be SOOOO confident and ABSOLUTELY convinced that the VLDs are nothing more than mere varmit bullets......WELL!!!...HERE`S YOUR BIG CHANCE TO REALLY CAPITALIZE, make your case and become richer in the process. What an opportunity for ya!!! I`d jump on it if I were you!!!

PUT IT UP or SHUT IT UP!!!............What`s it going to be???? Wanna play???

Um... seriously; consider the quote, "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Your mind... educated, or...

We had a member in our hunt club that started out with a 300WM shooting 180gr partitions, a bit much for our whitetails but that was his business. Any deer he brough in was shot at least twice usually once in the rear and then somewhere else. That wasn't enough gun and the bullet wasn't working properly. Went to the then new Marlin 450, if memory serves. Same type of kills. When he came in with a doe and spotted fawn, both had been shot in the rear, his first shot on each, we dismissed him from the club. We did find several deer on the property, buzzards help, that he had shot in the rear and was unable to recover. If you can't place your first shot in the kill zone don't plan on another shot. More game will be lost to shot placement than type of bullet. No I don't carry all the whiz gadgets. Binocs, bullets, flashlight, drag rope, rifle and usually some toilet paper if I have had some mexican food. I have more respect for the game I hunt than to take an iffy shot and yes I have passed on shots at trophy animals due to not being able to place my first round in the kill zone. I don't consider the rear end a kill zone. That is a desperation shot.Rick.

Wow, nailed it, in two words no less. Concise and definitive.

Pompous fits to a "T" and twit is close, but not quite there. Can I buy a vowel?