Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Shooting through brush with a .358 - a test

One thing I didn't see anyone mention (although Jeff mentioned something similar) is that when an animal is behind brush it can be real difficult to know exactly what part you are aiming at.

You may be aiming at the gut when you think it is the shoulder, especially if the animal is quartering away when you think it is broadside.

A horizontal branch may also be a similar color as the animal, making the animal appear much deeper chested than it really is which may cause you to aim high (or low) depending on whether said branch is in view along the back or bottom of the animal. Low light or dark timber will only compound this issue.

Regardless it is an interesting test.

This gent pretty much summed it up for me , except the interesting part. There's many out there who think brown on the other side of the brush is always what they are hunting for and whatever part of it is the target.

All I have to say is MANY tests have been run like this and the end conclusion is if you shoot through any brush you run a risk.

My story, WIDE open or so I though... and fired a round that hit a vine probably 3/16 in diameter, a very tough vine, appx 3 feet in front of the deer, deflected the bullet low enough to break a front leg UNDER the chest.... 65ish yard shot.

Now I'm not dumb enough to shoot through brush, but I even got bit when I thought there was no "brush" around at all. Which actually changed my thoughts on scopes too... I was becoming totally sold on 0-4x scopes. I'll never do the zero again... had I used a standard scope of 4-6x I'd have probably seen the vines and never shot or at least moved up above them and shot the deer in the head instead...

that is still pretty common in MN. When I hunted at chickenbuck this year, I think I was the only one besides Uncle Dusty that didn't have a bolt action...it was of course a 7600. (no see-thrus :))

Yeah, I remember the article on brush busting cartridges many years ago. As stated, it used dowels as the brush. By replacing the dowels after each shot, some control was achieved in duplicating subsequent shots. I think that old test would be worth trying again, especially with some of the new bullets that have been made over the last couple of decades. Hey, hunting season is starting to wrap up in lots of places, so it would be a fun experiment to try again. The TSX and some bonded bullets would be worth testing.

And NO, I am not advocating shooting through chit with a hail mary just to see if I can kill it. To answer the why question, because we are rifle loony's.

This reminds me of a bow hunt a few years back. I had a doe come in range about an hour before dark. I took my time and got a broadside shot. At the release, I heard a very load crack, and thought I hit her square in the shoulder. she took off, and I could not see where she was hit. I got down from my stand and started to look for signs of a hit. When i lined myself up with my stand, I saw my arrow sticking out of a 1" sapling, about 12 feet up. Never saw the sapling jump in the way. glad I didn't wound the doe!

Personally I doubt that a better bullet will have any bearing at all on the results on the target. ITs not that the bullets are failing on impact its that they are skewing off target..

I do have a guide friend that loaned his 338 that I load for, to his boss to shoot a b/c black bear in AK... accidentally shot right through what looks like a 4 inch to 6 inch alder center, goes through, kills the bear, then goes through another alder like the first on the exit side, and keeps going. Barnes X... But the issue there is that it didn't deflect as it hit the tree fairly center, I suspect had it grazed the edge that bear would never have been hit.

Also some of the tests(probably to mathematical luck) show that light fast bullets might be the best of all.... recall the 220 swift doing really well in one test.

Good post Hawk. Not only is shooting through brush at game very unethical, it also is very unsafe.

Safety obviously isn't a priority for the original poster.

I think the moral of the story here, despite what people may think of the OP is 'don't shoot through brush.'
That is, if you want to be sure of hitting the target in the right spot.

Or, if you want to make sure you are shooting a deer, and not some deer hunter taking a crap in the woods....

Yeah, that too!
Just too many things that can go wrong, as you rightly point out.

Me, I don't want an animal bad enough to endanger anyone else even slightly.

what they have said before the arrest...

"I seen some eyes and I shot at them"
"somthin moved them branches and I shot it"
"Elmer should a whistled afore he come up on me"
"I emptied my clip into there, shucks it was the first time my 742 never took a jam"

I am not the least bit interested in deliberately shooting anything through "brush". It is not the least bit ethical to deliberately do so or to contemplate doing so. I think "brush bustin cartridges" are articles written for and by morons.

In the Southern part of Minnesota people have to use slug guns.
Some of them brag about how many boxes of slugs they go through and then have to drive into town to get more.
I would guess that even their 12 gauge slugs are getting deflected.
whelennut

IIRC 12ga slugs got way more off course than skinnier faster rounds.

I think you guys are painting with far too broad a brush (har har) here. In much the same way that the anti-long-range crowd does.I'll stand here and say again- I've killed a few bucks when the brush was fairly light and -importantly- very close to them. No safety transgressions were committed <grin>. If the shot isn't there you wait till it is. If you aren't certain what way the deer is facing, you wait until you are certain. I've waited a long time for an ethical shot, as I'm sure we all have. But when the stars line up otherwise, I've clobbered them through brush as described and nothing I've seen from that, or this test, would cause me to NOT take that shot, within the defined parameters.

Finally got some sun and my damn guts aren't as tied into knots as they have been; I'm goin' shooting! If I get up to my 100-yard spot I'll repeat the test... Though not with my .358, that's settled to my satisfaction. I'll dig through the ammo safe and see what I have lots of that I'm not using... Something lighter and faster... 150 AB's from my '06 spring to mind, 3050 fps.

All in the name of science, my friends.

I really want to see precisely what part of the animal is under my crosshair, and to visualize the bullet's path through the vitals and where the exit will be. It's not enough for me to hope to hit it somewhere in the front half.

I want the crosshairs on hair, not flora.

That would be my preference, too.

My 2nd-best buck had his front half somewhat screened by a snowberry bush that was right next to him. It was obvious where his vitals were, and that's where I shot him, right through the snowberry bush (a light shrub).

He ate goooood.

Didn't shoot another test today. The mini-14 yahoos were rockin' it up at my 100-yd spot... another day. In the meantime- y'all got brush where you are. Set up a test, snap a few pics, report!

Trying to quantify a variable in this manner is a fool's errand.

Carry on...

Sure, of course. No realistic way to nail down all the variables contained in the general term "brush shooting".

What you CAN do, though, is simplify the question, define the parameters, and test the hypothesis. Then, you might learn something. Not YOU, obviously... grin...

Jeff, very interesting test. Where i hunt you need to pick shooting lanes through brush and the help scope is invaluable. I had the biggest buck I've ever seen dead or alive 60 yds in front of me a few yrs ago. Put up the scope and saw nothing but small branches and twigs between me and him. I let him go and never saw him again. Am I happy, no but feel better about not pulling the trigger. About a week later, I'm still hunting down a ridge and a doe pops out about 40 yds away. After looking for Mr Big and not finding any sign of another deer in the vicinity I decide I'm going for tender vittles in the freezer. She is looking straight at me and I throw up the 338-06 with a Nosler 180 BT up, aim and shoot. She looks at me and bounds off untouched. I start swearing at myself and go over for a look. About 5 yds from where she was standing a 1/2" sapling stood and I drilled it dead center, bullet went through to parts unknown but not in the deer.

The leasons I learned from 26 yrs of hunting in the brush. Find a shooting lane to sneak your bullet threw. That's why I have gone to accurate bolt guns and scopes that let you see those small twigs.

Don't get me wrong, you can and will get lucky as your targets show, but if the huntin' gods are not looking down on you that day, it can be a bad day.