Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Backpack Quality Rant

Definitely let me know if you're headed that way. We'll hook up.

I can't bring myself to do the Teepee thing, just can't picture it working well for me, despite others telling me how much they like theirs. My Akto is all I need for now, I guess.

With my Wiggy's Kif Special bag, my Akto, and my Longhunter...I'm set up pretty well for what I like to do. Maybe sometime we can check out your teepee...

I'll bring the pack up after deer season and drop it off with you...

dave

David & Jeff,

I should probably sell my backpack, the last 3 moose I have taken have all died in hand carrying distance to the boat/raft! But that pack has seen it's use, had to take it to Apocalypse Design to have the shoulder strap reinforced where it was tearing loose before this season, turns out wasn't necessary (grin). Offering to let Jeff use your pack, is in extremely good form David, but to really know what you got it has to be setup for the individual using it IMHO, no matter who makes the pack. My best bud and hunting pard and I are about the same size, I used his pack to haul out a front shoulder of a moose in a beaver swamp few years back and was stumbling around like a drunk, even fell with it on, it too was a Barneys when I got back to the boat retrieved my pack and brought his back to him, I put a hind on my pack and did just fine, it was an eyeopener to me, just those minor adjustments make a big diff. Pm'ing both youse, 1ak

This thread, which started as a critique of quality, has become more of a commentary on design and personal preferences, based on individual experiences. This is good because design and construction are fundamental to quality and performance in anything, packs included.

I started overnight and long distance backpacking in the relative wilderness of B.C. in the spring of 1964 and worked for both the B.C. Forest Service and the Alberta Forest Service for many years. I was frequently working solo, with backpack, in extremely remote country, carrying heavy loads.
I have also worked in the industry, but, am now retired as I am almost a geezer.

I have found that most of the equipment now on the market is crap, it is built for yuppies and yuppy-puppies as well as some yelpies. I have also found that packs that I like for mountain trekking are not always best for hunting. I have now owned and used 16 high-end Expedition packs and 8 medium-small packs and have strong opinions as to what I prefer-FOR B.C. CONDITIONS-, this is simply Dana Gleason expedition packs in neutral colours for general pack work and a tricked out Bullpack for most big game hunting. I use and like a Gregory Denali Pro I bought last year at a "deal" price, but, I prefer the simple, clean exterior of Dana's packs due to the heavy forest cover typical of most of B.C.

HOWEVER, I am looking hard at the Siwash-Navigator packs from Kifaru as they incorporate many features I really like for overnight or two night Grouse-Deer hunts; I am almost certainly going to buy one. My take on the quality is that Mystery and Kifaru are both right up there at the top and I trust and respect both Dana and Patrick, fellow geezers that they are!

My impression is that the quality of Badlands has slipped since I bought mine, I have used three of them over the past 6 yrs. and they are a very good pack when cost is considered, my friend who bought two in 2001 at my recommendation is very pleased with his. I prefer Mystery, Gregory Pro and Kifaru, but, the guys at Badlands are super people who provide a great product for the price, IMO.

I really prefer the most simple hunting pack possible and although the Bullpack may not feel as comfortable under load as a Longhunter or Outmatic , the easy of strapping on a hunk of whatever and humping it out of the bush appeals to me very much. So, it is a situation where none of us will ever prefer-use exactly the same rig and this is what keeps innovation in our gear merrily rolling along. The only real solution is to win a lotto and then simply buy two of everything!

Brad, keep on Dana's case about those lifter straps, I just gotta buy another load monster from Big D as both my other packs from him were/are absolutely superb.

Good post, Kutenay.

There's a difference between whether a brand/model is of good quality, and whether it is fit for purpose with regard to an individual's personal preference and specific needs.

In addition, things are changing fast in the world of materials/fabrics, and frame and suspension design. There's several people on this board with a great deal of experience with packs, but it's tough to stay current with the various models.

I feel that the current Kifaru and Mystery Ranch products are of good quality. I have no problem, however, with someone saying they aren't a good choice for that person's individual needs. I think that's what Brad intended to say, when he indicated that Kifaru didn't have what he wanted.

As far as the types of Ak hunting I like, packing serious loads of moose or caribou meat long distance across the tundra is one application for which a Bullpack is hard to beat. My Longhunter is the one I grab for most other applications.

dave

Good point, 1ak...a pack that fits one guy well may not fit another.

At the very least, Jeff will be able to examine my Longhunter and get a good feel for the design.

If his upper body dimensions are similar to mine, a quick call to Kifaru's 1800 number is all it takes for them to coach him on the basics of fitting it to his body.

It was a leap of faith for me to spend $1350 on two Longhunters, without actually seeing one in person, but I'm glad I did. Since the Kifaru guys didn't make it to the Sportsman's show, I figured I'd roll the dice.

Even if I wasn't able to fit someone else's pack perfectly to myself, it would have been great just to check one out in person.

dave

David,

Iak is right about pack fit. It'll be great if we're of similar dimensions(I'm 6'3" and 250lbs), but at the very least I'd like to handle one. I have a heck of a time buying stuff sight unseen. I recently bought an external packframe with an L-shaped bottom welded in place, just for hauling moose meat. Haven't tested it yet, as last moose was nice enough to drop near the riverbank, and I didn't go this year. It's made by an outfit called Alaska Range in Homer. Mountain View Sports in Anchorage carries them. If I can find their web page, I'll post it. Had I known about them, I would have probably bought the Bullpac instead. Looks simpler and cheaper.

Jeff

Well..since I'm 6' and 180lbs, it probably won't fit you. At least you can check it out.

Well...... at least I'm not the runt of the litter(grin) I split the difference between Jeff and David 6' 1" and 205 right now, was 195 for sheep season (frown) but you're both right even to handle a size small or 7XXX gives you a better idea than pics on the web. 1ak

Jeff and David -- how do you find the teepee's work in this climate? As I get older and crankier (and creakier) I like to be able to stand up when I get up. I've looked at the Sibley tents in Cabela's, but think they might leak up here <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />. Could be they would be fine for caribou and sheep hunting, though. What do the Kifaru teepee's weigh?

Not to restart the internal frame pack rant, but I bought an Osprey Aether 75 ($208 at REI on Northern Lights) and used it to haul 90 lb caribou loads last month. It's not perfect either, but it's a whole lot better than anything else I've used. Give me a call when you're in the vicinity and you can take a look.

I haven't tried the Teepee yet. I'm not convinced it's the best way to go for sleeping on soaking wet moss in the rainforests, though Patrick told me I'd probably be surprised. The teepee weights depend on the model and whether you use a liner or stove, but the 4man weighs around 5lbs and the 6 man a little over 6lbs, bare.

Right now my brother and I are geared with light, one man tents. I'm beginning to agree with you on wanting to stand up once in a while!

I'll be through your neck of the woods again in Nov...maybe we can hook up for a beer...

dave

The problem that I see with the K-tipis is simple, but, very important to me. This is "footprint" in the steep, irregular terrain of B.C. ( and other areas) which will limit the number of places one can set up his camp. I realize that a campsite can be prepared, but, this entails carrying extra weight in the tools required for this as well as the time and energy involved.

For an area where I can get access by truck, plane or even hayburner, I am inclined to use a mountaineering dome tent which is commodious for one person and weighs about 8-10 lbs. In this respect, I am considering the Hilleberg "Saivo" to replace my battered North Face.

For stop and drop camping where one is extremely concerned with weight, I find the bivy-tarp combo both light and versatile and this is what I carry. The Kifaru tipis would be fabulous in arid, rolling country, just like the teepees the Indians used that inspired them, but, they have limitations for wet, rugged, densely forested terrain, IMHO.

I have yet to see the ideal shelter for every area and condition and have resigned myself to pulling up my pants while sitting down. I also find that a tiny gas stove is simpler then the Kifaru system and after 12 hours afoot with pack and rifle, I need simplicity. I think that each of us has to experiment and thus determine what system works best for our given needs. An Integral Designs Mega Sola is one solution for my shelter needs, a I.D. Unishelter and Moss tarp or Syltarp III is another.

I also like the Saivo, and am tempted to replace an old VE-25 with it. It'll be good for fly-in trips.

Each of us (that I hunt with) is geared for light, solo trips...and I switched from my Bibler Tripod to the Akto in order to have a little more room to stretch out, dress, and stash gear.

I have reservations about the teepees, for the same reasons you mention.

dave

Yup, if I lived where Brad does, I would get a six-person tipi w/o question, but, the other night at 5000 ft. in a severe "donner und blitzen" storm, the old North Face did the trick and the floor kept the understory from sucking up moisture and then getting me wet. I have a Chouinard pyramid and like it for the winter, but, wet ground has a way of crawling under it's edge and then into my sleeping bag.

I also have a Bibler Solo Dome which I bought for summer flyfishing backpack trips, but, I like the look of the Alto more and may buy one as well as a Saivo. What is your impression of their quality, ruggedness and ease/speed of setup?

I'm impressed with the quality, ruggedness and ease of the Akto. It does take up a bit more room than my Tripod, as you have to run the guy lines out further. I'm sure I could improve that, if I tinkered with it.

At first, I had some concerns about the quality of the zipper, but it's holding up, and I guess my fears were unfounded.

I haven't had it in the snow yet. It has, however, kept me dry in some serious rain.

What I really like about it is that you can leave the inner tent at home, and just sleep under the fly and pole in warmer weather. It'll still stay dry that way, unless there's a lot of wind. In that case, my goretex bivy bag keeps me dry anyway.

You've probably seen this, but follow the links on this page to some good pictures.

http://www.backcountry-equipment.com/tents/hilleberg_akto.php

dave

David/Kuteney/muledeer,

The teepee definitely has its limitations. I lay a small tarp under my pad that extends about a foot or so out from it. It's a great tent so long as you're on some kind of soil/tundra, and can use tent stakes. I can stand up in the very center, which I like. I wouldn't use it sheep hunting where you may be camping in the rocks, as anchoring it would be an immense pain in the butt. I have yet to try it in snow either, I spent a few nights in a friends Bibler 2-man/4-season(I can't recall the model), and I really liked it. My head and feet rub the walls, but that's a problem I've had in every 2-man tent I've been in.

While it most certainly is not backoack gear, I wanted to pass this on. I think I've found the ultimate base camp tent. The Alaska Tent and Tarp "Arctic Oven". It's 10'X10', and tall enough for me to stand up. Also has a stove jack. It weathered the rain of POW admirably, and it sure is nice to be able to fire up the stove, and dry out gear.

Jeff

That is about what I figured would happen and it precludes much of my use of it as B.C. has the odd rock in the soil. For a base camp tent, I would pick the Hilleberg Saivo and for the lightest base camp tent, I would buy an Integral designs MK III in their propriety PFTE laminate; I find these superior to Bibler tents although they are fractionally heavier.

I have seen the website of the tent you refer to, it is certainly impressive, but, far too heavy for my needs.

Yep the Arctic Oven is heavy, I have one but only use it in the winter and due to it's shape it must be protected from wind by brush or something, they make one now called the Arctika ( I think) that is dome designed and must shed wind better. But they are comfortable if weight is not a concern.

We have used the 8 man tipi for a cook shack and sleeping shelter on a float trip on the Sheenjek and as a cookshack only on Kodiak. Have never used the stove (grrr) as my hunting pard is overly concerned (IMO) about woodsmoke smell . Space to weight is unbelievable, but if you brush the walls you are gonna get wet. The tents I go to most are in descending size Eureka Equinox 6 man great tent for two guys where comfort is key can stand in it, TNF VE-25 same but less weight, less comfort and true 4 season vs. 3 for the Equinox (but the E is far more impressive in wind than any Cabelas tent I have ever seen) but you can't stand up to pull yer britches on. 2 guys sheep hunting REI halfdome, what a great tent for the money, takes a few mods, but very comfortable for the weight. Solo Clip flashlight CD 3lbs. 8 oz. works for one and pretty comfortable, but would be tight on Jeff as it is snug on me. and for OOPs, Integral designs siltent. Agree with Kutenay so far little gas stove works just fine for my cooking and heating needs, although I still want to try the stove in the tipi, just so I know. 1ak

I have a Walrus Cascade Condo for the times we fly in with a Beaver and have no weight issues, or car camp (not on this island!), or horse pack. It's a great tent -- double wall, so everything stays dry, and plenty of room for two and all their gear. It has a vestibule for cooking and storing wet gear, and is pretty wind-resistant.

I haven't quite figured out the choice for solo camping, particularly if I go back to backpacking. I'll be checking some of the links, because a lot of these are new brands and styles to me.

Thanks for the info...

This has been a real good post because it is a discussion as it should be. The people on this forum seem to be a bunch of good people. Love it.
I have a Kifaru LH and am happy with it because it is a pack system. When I first received the pack I was disappointed. It was not as light as advertised, I could take one look and know that it was behind the times of the top expedition pack makers, and it was expensive. It was also difficult at first to figure the fitting, and how everything worked. Not something I could put on and go. I can say after using it and being able to break it down into other configurations I am very happy with it. Once I get to camp I break it down into the hauler with the top bag, and that is my system for daypacking. It does hangup on things overhead a little, and branches that would drag across my back. Probably for any pack, it is just best to drop it off when going on a stalk.
So, in a nut shell. For strict backpacking I understand it doesn't get much better than a Mystery Ranch pack, and there are some other good ones out there. IMO, It seems all the packs mentioned have great quality. Just depends on what you are going to use it for. I wouldn't take a light nylon backpack through the brush, it'd probably get shredded. Just like most things we want to own, it is difficult to find something that does it all, and we have to compromise. Its just what compromise is best right? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />