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You guys with African experience,please forgive the stupid question from one who has never shot a Cape Buffalo....but, I hear and read the advise about putting a bullet up the nose of a Cape Buffalo that is very close...the objective being to drive the bullet to the brain.

My question is does it take a solid to pull this off, or are there soft points that will do it reliably?

I can imagine the question would not seem so dumb if you're in the situation....thought I would ask those who might know the answer.

Thanks!

Forget the nose as it's too simplistic and reality is that it depends on the angle of the head..... aim to put the bullet into the brain pan, no matter what the angle of the head.

A good soft will do it, but I'd strongly suggest a solid because you can't afford a bullet failure at that point!

You can also wait till it drops it's head to hook you and pop one into the spine....... but be ready to step to the side as you do it.

Buff are a lotta fun to hunt!

Shakari: Yes the angle of the head is really important I would think.I understand the bullet issue which is why I asked!I can imagine that the head of a buff can be pretty rough on an expanding bullet.... Yes, it makes sense to angle into the brain somehow....

I just was not sure how much penetration it takes to reach the brain on that sort of shot.

Thanks for answering!

Bob my only experience is with big bears, and Shakari's advice holds true. The spine shot is higher percentage on a bear as their skulls deflect bullets if angled when the bullet impacts. I have to expect the skull of a buff is pretty heavy duty too.

The only time I was hurt by a bear is on a spine shot. His fight was out but forward momentum took the legs out from under me. Is that the same with a buff?

It do get the blood going though and I really want to book and hunt buff in the next couple of years.

In buff is the charge primarily because of wounding, or are thet just ornery of disposition?

Randy

By the way would a flat nose solid act to better penetrate an angulated entry on the skull? I would think that the edge of the meplat would shear bone. I have no experience, just therorising, which at the point of charge is not the time to test a theory.

Bob, the buffalo would have to have his neck craned up and you on eye level for a shot up the nose to reach the brain, and Id go with what Shakari said...use a solid at that point....
If you get to look at a buffalo skull, it seems the most logical place to get a bullet into the brain is to shoot it as close to the boss as you can possibly get...cause it does cover the brain pan like a helmet...
My experience is limited compared to some of these guys, but I did like the solid concept. When you are thinking about times like this shot placement, penetration and bullet performance must all be known entities...



Ingwe

Ingwe: That is precisely why I asked the question....I have not hunted them but intend to...I don't want to be guessing about what it takes to penetrate that much bone if the chance is there.I do understand they would have to be in a "just so" position for that up-the-nose shot. I have little experience head shooting animals.

Actually a Buff skull isn't particularly dense but of course, the boss is and you need to have the ability to punch through that as well in case of a slightly misplaced shot.

FWIW, I use the GS Custom flat nosed mono solid in my .500 Jeffery and it usually penetrates a Buff from stem to stern.

Of course, ideally, one would get the first shot and the follow up right in the first place and thereby avoid a rush!

The shot that probably causes more problems of all (from my experience) is the frontal Chest shot with a minimal calibre such as the 375 H&H. I've seen several shot like that and the bullet seems to skid round on the outside of the ribs. Funnily enough on every occasion, the bullets have been the TBBC which incidentally, I hate with a vengence!

I've got a clip of film (that incidentally won't copy etc for some reason) where I was training my tracker to deal with clients...... we got up on a buff and the tracker set the punter up perfectly for the shot. The buff took the bullet like it hit dead right and you can even see a puff of dust that looks bang on....... we then followed the bloody thing for 3 days but never found it! - Again a TBBC from a 375 H&H.

Shikari: In your experience what bullets do well from a 375 on a frontal chest shot?

I'd say it's a marginal calibre for that shot with any bullet but the best bullet for that shot/calibre is the GS Custom flat nosed mono solid...... and the worst is the TBBC.

I've also had piss poor performmance with the Rhino bullet. I appreciate a lot of people like the Rhino but I don't.

Here's an interesting one for you. It's not a frontal chest shot but is interesting nevertheless.

The client pulled his shot and missed the Buff he was aiming (20yards) at by a mile and dropped this other one by the shot going straight into the earhole and dropped him like a sack of coal!

I guess it just wasn't that animal's day huh!

Bob, mine is a sample of only one so take it FWIW...but a 300 Gr. Swift A Frame.

+1 on the monolithic solids...Barnes banded is a good one....

Ingwe

Ingwe: Thanks, I have heard good things about the 300 Swift,and the 270 TSX.

Bob, Shikari is also right in mentioning the frontal chest shot, and it would probably do well to listen to him...the frontal shot is often the one provided the visiting sport.
( Because the buffalo know something is up, but don't know what, so they turn to face it..)
He also has a point with the flat meplat on a solid....seems to aid in more " straight line" performance..
FWIW ( again) I went with the old standby, first shot a soft, solids thereafter...

Ingwe

I took a buff in Zambia on a cull with an 8mm 200 grain Nosler Partition just about an inch and a 1/2 below the boss. The bullet penetrated through the skull and a foot down the neck. From that experience, I have no doubt that a SP up the snout will do the job, but there is no question a solid would be better.

Bob,
When I went, I was using the .416 Rem Mag and 400gr. Swift A-frames for softs and the 370gr (or 380gr, I can't remember) North Fork Flat Point solids. The only buff I shot was with the solid, at the PH's request and it did the job just fine. Fortunately, it wasn't a frontal brain shot! Both of those bullets seem to have a fine reputation for killing Buff. The PH I hunted with was very happy to hear I had A-frames as opposed to Barnes TSX, although as we know, many PH's think the TSX is the be all, end all. Just different experiences and preferences. The best advice, I think, is when you know who your PH will be, see what he prefers and follow his advice if you can on bullet selection. That way, he'll have confidence in what you're using and there won't be any bitching about your bullet not being up to the task.

Test

Shakair:

What bullet is TBBC?

Test: Good advice! Discussing bullets is like discussing politics and religion

doc: I think Shikari is discussing Trophy Bonded Bear Claws(TBBC).

Yes, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. Sorry for not making myself clear!

May I ask what did they, the Throphy Bonded Bullets, do or fail to do that displeased you ? In other words, how did they fail ? On what game using what catriages ? Thanks in advance. E

I guess I should preface this by saying my comments are based on my own personal experiences and others may have had different experiences and therefore formed different opinions but FWIW:

I've seen a lot of bullet failures over the years but the bullet I've seen fail most consistenly is the TBBC solid and most often in the .375 H&H and I most certainly don't think it's anything to do with the calibre itself.

I've seen 'em fail in a variety of ways but the most worrying one to me was a few years ago when a client had a completely open shot at an eland at a range of about 100 yards, (I can't remember exactly). Some might argue that the bulllet didn't fail because it killed the eland, but when we opened it up, the bullet had gone in, (if I remember correctly) just clipping a rib, through the heart and had stopped well before the other side and when we found the bullet, it was literally as bent as a banana....... Remember, that's a solid from a clear shot from a .375 H&H.

Now consider what would have happened if that shot had been a frontal brain shot at an Elephant from 15 yards?.... or even worse, at a frontal brain shot on a charging Elephant at 15 yards?

I've also seen similar failures with the same bullet type/calibre on side on chest shots on Buffalo and other animals.

Frontal chest shots on Buff with any calibre below about 416 can be a problem because the shot can sometimes skid around the outside of the ribs. You also have the issue of that big dewlap of fat they have in front and if you watch a video on slo-mo of that kind of shot, you can often see a shock wave of energy ripple round the dewlap and often see the animal rear up as he takes the shot...... that shockwave etc equates to lost energy and lost penetration. Add those factors to a less than perfect bullet and I hope you'll see my point.

Ingwe mentioned Swift A Frames and I have to say, I really like those. They're one of the very few bullets that seem to do everything really well. I've had clients shoot everything from Leopards to Buff with those and they just WORK brilliantly!

Here's some examples of what I think good, recovered bullets should look like. All are from my .500 Jeffery.

The one on the left is a Woodleigh SP that was used as a coup de grace shot on a paralysed Buffalo. I ran up behind it and whacked it at point blank range through the spine, down through the heart and it was either recovered from the sand beneath the animal or just under the skin..... can't remember which. These bullets are also fantastic on cats, although on doesn't usually recover them as they pass through.

The next two are both GS Custom mono flat nosed solids. The middle one was a texas heart shot from slightly above on a previously wounded Buff. The bullet broke the spine right at the back of the animal, penetrated the entire length and was recovered under the skin at the dewlap. When the animal took the shot, it took him off his feet, spun him 180 degrees and he went down like a sack of the smelly brown stuff.

The bullet on the right was almost a carbon copy of the centre bullet but didn't touch the spine.



Probably the most interesting penetration shot I've ever seen could also be considered a technical bullet failure was with my .404 and a Rhino soft. I'd had problems with these bullet that I won't bore you with here as it's not really relevent.

The hunter took the Texas heart shot on a Running Buffalo and the soft went in the arse, travelled the entire rength of the animal, including the outstretched neck of the running Buff and came out neatly between the nostrils. The exit hole was the same size as the entrance hole....... and that from a soft!