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You don't always get to pick where the deer or elk are gonna be so why not take something that will do the job near or far? You don't get to pick where they are going to be but you are in complete charge of when the bullet leaves the gun. What is the big problem with waiting for a broadside shot? Get this and you have a very dead animal if you put it where it is supposed to go. I would have no problem with hunting elk with these bullets after this year, including bull elk. I would not try to run a bullet up an elks gut like you can do with a Partition or TSX. This would result in a disaster but I have the time to wait for a broadside shot.
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That may be true. If I'm hunting up behind the house and a deer doesn't offer me a precise shot, I can come back to the house and go again tomorrow or the next day. However, if I've traveled a considerable distance and am on a limited budget of time, I may not enjoy that option. My opportunitys to shoot an elk may be limited and fleeting. Especially on a DIY hunt where I do not have the advantage of a local professional or the time to pre-scout the animals. I have to rely on topo maps, wild guesses, and chicken guts to figure out a game plan. The weapon I shoot will be adequete for the animal I intend to shoot with a heavy for calibre bullet with a proven track record. As I said, if someone wants me to start field testing their bullets, they can start sending me checks or paying for some of my trips. 
Aim for the exit hole.
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,108 Likes: 5 |
Doesn't matter if you travel 5 miles or 1500 miles. If the shot isn't there,going to a super duper magnum with magic bullets should not be the deciding factor to take a shot or not just because you traveled a greater distance.
Last edited by saddlesore; 12/03/09.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Joined: Jun 2005
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A big +1 to Saddlesore. Guys have been killing elk for a long time with "cheaper" bullets. Guess they waited for a good shot, even if they drove 1500 miles. Put a Berger into the middle of the chest on a broadside elk and you will have a dead elk.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Guess there is still some failure to comprehend how VLD's differ from other target bullets--and how they differ from any other expanding bullet made. They do NOT expand until they get inside the animal, which is different from any other expanding bullet ever designed. This was accidentally discovered, but happens nonetheless.
Apparently there is also the misconception that VLD's are only good for long-range shooting. This is far from the case. They perform in much the same any range from close up to far away.
I have only shot a handful of animals at over 300 yards with VLD's, and those were at less than 400. Unlike some other bullets, they do NOT "blow up" before getting into the clockwork.
In short, they offer the same degree of revolutionary performance as the Barnes X, except at the opposite end of the expanding-bullet spectrum. They get inside and really destroy the lungs and anything else inside the chest cavity. In the process they merely punch a knitting-needle-sized hole going in, damaging even LESS meat than a monolithic around the entrance hole.
This sort of performance has been fantasized about by some hunters since the beginning of expanding bullets.
The quote from WDMB has been over-used so much that it is a cliche. The fact is that when Bell started hunting big game expanding bullets were unreliable, the reason he chose solids. At the end of his life he was a big believer in masive tiisue destruction, and was shooting red stags with the .220 Swift.
If penetration were the only criteria for "killing power" on any sort of big game, then we'd still be using solids for pronghorns and whitetails. But we don't, because solids don't kill nearly as effectively as today's expanding bullets, whether the Barnes TSX or the Berger VLD.
Your SPOT on with this Guy. This is my first year using the Berger VLD of any kind. I loaded some(155grn) up for my 300wsm with 65.6grns of W760 that shot .500-.670 RESPECTFULLY, so I decided to try them on the powerline that's about 442yrds long. I had 6 doe came out on me this morning on a cull hunt the first I shot was @ 182yrd she ran 30yrds and piled up the second was 193yrds, she was bang flop, and the last ran up the hill @ 222 yrds and she ran 35yrds and piled up as well. I was VERY eager to see how the bullet performed to my amazement they all had pass throughs, as per the "knitting-needle-sized hole going in" this is very much so what happen. When the deer were field dreased this told the tail of the typical Berger performance after entering the game which is devasting simply all or most of the vitals in the animals chest cavity...............to say the least I'm sold and WILL be using them in the 257 Roy possibly this weekend or in the Oklahoma panhandle to thin out some Antelope at a buddies ranch!!!!
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That is one of my points. There ain't no magic bullets. There are bullets called NPs and Grand Slams that will take a raking shot on an elk without a doubt. And when you hunt elk in the dark timber, waiting for a elk to pose for a Christmas card shot more than likely means an elk that disappears. And it may be the only one you see before you have to take your super duper magnum and go home. Perhaps your bullets will work but I'm not gonna drive 1500 miles to find out. Maybe a .257 is lightning in a bottle but I ain't gonna drive 1500 miles to find out.
Aim for the exit hole.
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
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Don't know about elk disappearing,but I shot two elk this year with those Christmas card shots, and have done so for about twenty years,every year except two.I hunt OTC areas and not private land in some of the most crwoded units in the state
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Yeah, I keep hearing that it's almost impossible to get anything but a running shot on elk, but I have shot only two moving elk in my life. Both of those were only walking fast, and so close it didn't matter anyway. I just put the crosshairs where the bullet needed to go and pulled the trigger.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Well, that's a helluva shot, alright & longer than anything I've made, but why bother with a doe at that range?
Couldn't find a doe closer or just to be able to say you did it?
MM
Ego or lack of stalking/hunting skills. No other reason. No you are th one that thinks he is psychic IS this close enough for you? ![[Linked Image]](http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/parker_buffalo.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/HuntingPictures2007005.jpg)
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Nice even rub on the buff............grin
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Ol' JWP takes 'em up close or out far... Either way - at his choice. I just don't see a problem with that... Not at all.
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![[Linked Image]](http://www.orchardphoto.com/h29zo28.jpg) Here is another Berger VLD failure because the bullet failed to exit. No wonder, it was a 115 Berger VLD out of an Encore 25/06 (a really crappy rifle) at around or a bit more than 200 yards. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.orchardphoto.com/h29zo31.jpg) At the tip of the old corn stock is the ONLY wound on the deer and it's a small one. For those needing orientation as to what part of the animal is in the photo; the wound is on the back of the left rear leg.
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Well, that's a helluva shot, alright & longer than anything I've made, but why bother with a doe at that range?
Couldn't find a doe closer or just to be able to say you did it?
MM
Ego or lack of stalking/hunting skills. No other reason. No you are th one that thinks he is psychic IS this close enough for you? That is close enough for me. Keep on practicing and you won't have to shoot deer in the next county. See, if you try you can get close and you won't need the expensive gadgets. Sell them and get some knee and elbow pads and start low crawling to the game.  Great job man! 
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Who said anything about running shots on elk? Geez, I guess some folks got all the answers. Even if they don't match the questions. I'll just keep on using what works for me. The closest I've had to a running shot was a cow elk that was running acrost a small meadow toward me. I didn't want to shoot her head on so I waved at her and when she stopped and milled about, I shot her when I had a better angle. I didn't have a super duper magnum with me that time. I was using a .280 with hand loaded 150gr Core Lokt bullets. About as pedestrian as you can get.
Aim for the exit hole.
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,984 Likes: 6 |
Well, that's a helluva shot, alright & longer than anything I've made, but why bother with a doe at that range?
Couldn't find a doe closer or just to be able to say you did it?
MM
Ego or lack of stalking/hunting skills. No other reason. No you are th one that thinks he is psychic IS this close enough for you? That is close enough for me. Keep on practicing and you won't have to shoot deer in the next county. See, if you try you can get close and you won't need the expensive gadgets. Sell them and get some knee and elbow pads and start low crawling to the game. Great job man! I think that I'll continue to practice and just shoot them were I find them and then hike over to them.. You hunt as your abilities allow, I have no problem with that
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Well, that's a helluva shot, alright & longer than anything I've made, but why bother with a doe at that range?
Couldn't find a doe closer or just to be able to say you did it?
MM
Ego or lack of stalking/hunting skills. No other reason. No you are th one that thinks he is psychic IS this close enough for you? That is close enough for me. Keep on practicing and you won't have to shoot deer in the next county. See, if you try you can get close and you won't need the expensive gadgets. Sell them and get some knee and elbow pads and start low crawling to the game. Great job man! I think that I'll continue to practice and just shoot them were I find them and then hike over to them.. You hunt as your abilities allow, I have no problem with that Now that is an lucid mature and intelligible post JWP. Bravo! and I am not being facetious.
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Campfire Member
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ok, i've just trudged through 9 pages b/c i'm extremely interested in this as i just decided to go with the hunting vld's on my 2 newest builds.......the 175's in a 308 and the 190's in a 300 WM.......that being said I had a buddy that swears by them come up and shoot does on a property i manage in middle GA.......he shot 3......1st at 200, 2nd at 490 and the 3rd at 190....deer 1 and 2 were DRT literally flopped over with high shoulder shots, 3rd deer his rifle slipped on his knee and he called a gut shot........we waited 4 hours and began tracking....my problem/concern is that there was not a single sign of blood/hair anything at point of impact, there was absolutely no blood trail at all........i'm a deer biologist and realize that this happens sometimes with gut shot deer, we recovered the deer after doing circles about 250 yds from poi.....bullet entered the guts behind 4th rib and lodged in the left hind quarter.........my big concern is lack of blood, i understand that well placed shots are dramatic with these bullets, however i'm concerned with the not so well placed shots.........anyone have any stories of following a blood trail with a VLD? surely someone has wounded or had to track one shot with these........
i'm not for or against at the moment, i'd like to be for considering i'm loading them with intent to kill, however i do have some concern but the only negative i can find is the tiny exit.......years ago i had the same issue with partitions, they were not expanding and leaving a 30 hole in and a 32 cal hole out.....won't bore any more with other bullet +and- but would like to know if anyone has had blood trails with the VLD's
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Doesn't matter if you travel 5 miles or 1500 miles. If the shot isn't there,going to a super duper magnum with magic bullets should not be the deciding factor to take a shot or not just because you traveled a greater distance. Amen
Ed
A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
The worst slaves are those that put the chains on themselves.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Interesting read.
I don't see a whole lot of difference between a hunting VLD bullet and a 1980s version ballistic tip.Bullet goes in,comes unglued, and the animal dies.Never shot anything with a VLD.Shot loads of animals with BTs.Sounds to me like the terminal performance is pretty much the same.
I never had any real problems with BTs.I've used them alot in the past and would not have a problem usuing them in the future. But I will say that for the last 6 or 7 years now i've converted over to monos and Im not talking X bullets.All in all the deer I've shot have piled up quicker than with the BTs.Just an observation on my part.
Only place I'd have a question on cup and core stuff is a Texas Heart Shot.Now I dont go around trying to make THSs.In fact,I try to avoid them.But poop does happen.And if it did happen,the cup and core from any maker,would give me a question.
"Well do you feel lucky,punk?"
Thats not a question I'd have with a mono.
dave
![[Linked Image]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Logo_Schmidt_%26_Bender.jpg) Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 68 |
Gentlemen,
I must say that I have used the VLD with very good results. Last year used my 300 Ultra Mag 168gr. on my deer at 558 yards and dropped him on his tracks with a exit hole that you can put a fist through and blood all over the area. This year used my 7 mm Mag 168gr on my Elk at 200 yard and he too dropped with the same results. My buddies and I have started to shoot these bullets only.
Respectfully
Manny Sanchez
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