Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa WTF?US Fish Wildlife wants to meet 3yrs after my Safari

Was contacted today out of the blue about meeting with a USFW agent about a safari in SA I went on 3 yrs ago. Anyone had this happen to them or can give me some guidance. They told me I could get an attorney if I choose, or stop the questioning and get counsel. Said they weren't sfter me, but the operator in SA. I will say it now I did nothing illegal to my knowledge. Just a typical plains game hunt. They did ask if I had shot all the animals at the ranch or went to others, which I did. Any help or guidance would be appreciated. Are they looking to take my animals? All my animals cleared customs and are at my taxidermist. Did have one Cites aardwolf which was permitted and cleared customs. They did ask if one of the places I hunted was at a dairy which I don't remember doing. Said they will give me more info at our meeting or interrigation.

pd,
My advice would be for you to contact your attorney ASAP. I would not talk to any government agent about anything unless in the presence of and on the advice of council. Your representive will find out whether or not you are a target or a subject of the investigation and/or what the governments intentions are if you are not either. Do not take the word of or any advice from any employee of the federal government under any circumstances. Way too risky.

Dave

pdkillr,

Don't for get the scariest words in the American language are, "We're from the government and we're here to help you."

Definitely get an attorney. Do not answer a single question without the attorney being present.

Thanks for the replies, guys. I do plan to have my attorney contact the agent to see what's going on. Funny thing is last week I get a call from a guy saying he is thinking about using the outfitter and they have me listed as a reference. So I talked to the guy for about 30 min.. He seemed to be interested in the fact that I didn't hunt exclusively at the outfitters ranch and that I went to other's to take some animals. He specifically asked if I hunted at a dairy farm, which I don't remember doing, but I said it could have been. True answer is I don't think I did. But when I got off the phone I thought it was funny the guy knew the name of my PH and isn't even booked the hunt yet. Then today I get the call from the agent, don't think the call last week was a coincidence. I ask the agent today if he or they called last week and of course he said they didn't. Any ideas on what they have cooking or are fishing for? I heard the fed govt doesn't fish, they just ask you questions to verify their answers they already have. Again thanks guys for any advice. I shot 2 caracals which I left in SA, wounded a Kudu still in SA, shot a baboon still in SA. Brought back an impala, bushbuck, gemsbuck, diuker, springbuck, and aardwolf, mounted warthog, mounted springhare and a wildebeast skull. Damned, saved up for this trip for 10years, thought I was done spending $ on it, now looks like I'll be paying more to an attorney!!!!!!

The Lacey Act is so onerous and so broad reaching that you can find yourself a felon for the mere act of receiving illegally taken game.

DO NOT SPEAK TO ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL EVER ABOUT ANYTHING without your council present. You may think your innocent but violating this act doesn't require any effort on your part.

There is a reason they tell you that anything you say can and will be used against you. They mean it.

United States of America

United States Code Annotated Currentness. Title 16. Conservation. Chapter 53. Control of Illegally Taken Fish and Wildlife.

Statute Details
Printable Version
Citation: 16 USC 3371 - 3378

Citation: 95 Stat. 1073

Summary:
The Lacey Act provides that it is unlawful for any person to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase any fish or wildlife or plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law, treaty, or regulation of the United States or in violation of any Indian tribal law whether in interstate or foreign commerce. Violation of this federal act can result in civil penalties up to $10,000 per each violation or maximum criminal sanctions of $20,000 in fines and/or up to five years imprisonment. All plants or animals taken in violation of the Act are subject to forfeiture as well as all vessels, vehicles, aircraft, and other equipment used to aid in the importing, exporting, transporting, selling, receiving, acquiring, or purchasing of fish or wildlife or plants in a criminal violation of this chapter for which a felony conviction is obtained where the owner should have known of the illegal transgression.

Based on the animals I listed above does anyone know if I unknowingly did this Lacey act thingy? I did forget a blesbuk I brought back as well.

You cannot get a permit for an aardwolf at least not within the last three years. Something really fishy about that! They may have let you go with continued observation of this outfitter for additional problems. Like letting drug dealers continue to sell dope to round up the whole operation.

The aardwolf is very likely the problem. No way in heck you should have gotten that out of RSA or through F&W or US Customs!

FWIW--all the info you are posting about this safari is subject to review and use by your interrogating agency. You might as well be telling them yourself, without benfit of legal counsel...that benefit having previously been well-advised before saying anything.
Just trying to help. Good luck.

If you violated a law in a foreign country that we have a treaty with and were not even aware you did it, you still may be found guilty under this act. Perhaps your PH strayed across an invisible boundary to, say a neighboring property, and had you take an animal for which you had a legal license. You may have inadvertently poached an animal and not have any knowledge that you did so. Under the Lacey Act, You're Guilty. It is a law written to give prosecuting attorneys enormous power. In the hands of the wrong prosecutor, perhaps some lefty anti hunting federal prosecutor looking to make a splash. You're F'd if he chooses to F. U. THAT'S WHY YOU NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER TALK TO A FEDERAL PROSECUTOR OR AGENT OR LAW ENFORCEMENT METER MAID. NEVER EVER EVER WITHOUT YOUR ATTORNEY. If they ask you what time it is you should ask for your lawyer. If they ask your name you should ask for an attorney. The only one who has your interest at heart is you and your hired gun lawyer.

Television would have you believe that the only reason you would need a lawyer is if you've done something wrong. Oh, contrare, the people who have done nothing wrong need a lawyer more than those who are/may be guilty of wrongdoing.

Lawyer up. Preferably with someone who has at least heard of the Lacy Act before he talked to you.

Definately take a lawyer, however, it should be noted that aardwolf vary in CITES classification from country to country and as far as that species goes, you only need to worry if you took the animal in Botswana where it's listed as CITES III.Therefore as it says: Only populations of Botswana are subject to the Convention.

See page 35 here: http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/trade-use/lists/cites/pubs/cites.pdf

You say your aardworf was permitted..... do you mean USF&WS permitted it to be imported without any problems or do you mean mean your outfitter told you that you were permitted to shoot it? This shouldn't be a problem if you took the animal in SA but I just wanted to clear it up.

Also, how long ago did the trophies actually enter the country and were you questioned about anything at all at the time by customs or USF&WS?

Other questions are: Are you sure your blesbuck is a blesbuck or could it be a bontebuck etc? Bontbuck are an oddity because although they're CITES II they still require a special import permit and also what area or SA did you hunt. You don't have to name the farm just the nearest town or how far from the border etc.

It could be that they're after you or the outfitter and I guess all you can do is take legal advice and be cautious..... Look out for that Lacey act though because it's a real SOB and penalties are very harsh indeed.

Also remember that Big Brother is probably watching!

When you have an attourney present - tell them your not saying anything.

Shakari may be on to something here with the bontebok thing .... Bontebok and blesbok have interbred in numerous areas in South Africa. Some of these hybrids look more like blesbok and some more like bontebok. Your �blesbok� might be a bontebok lookalike, triggering USF&WS attention.

It's only a bontebok with papers, even a 99% bontebok without papers is a Blesbok. That's the fastest way to get a landowner to back off on the trophy fees no papers no bontebok.

If it's only a shoulder mount, it becomes even more difficult to identify as only the thin white part of the head is the factor and then it's still not a "genetic" guarantee.

I say it's the aardwolf. That is one nasty bugger to get permits for, and next to impossible to import to America. Only panda tiger, and Mtn Gorillas are harder! Heck they would not give me a permit for a Brown hyena to import it to the USA and that is a way easier permit to get in RSA.

Watch out!!!!!

I had a USFW flunky that was going to torch my bongo because he didn't like they way the import papers were filed. My trophy was shipped from Cameroon, to France, because the outfitter shipped all of his trophies to France to insure that they would arrive in the US at the port they needed to be. Can't rely on Functionaires in Cameroon for that. So it took the better part of a year, but they arrived in Miami. A low level field agent didn't like the fact that they went to France first, and basically told me he was going to burn my trophies. When I protested that every document was done properly, he then came back that the bongo was a CITIES animal. At the time, only in Congo were they CITIES/ He countered with if one country lists them, then all countries are bound which is bullshit.

I contacted a USFW agent in Atlanta , who agreed that this agent was wrong in Miami, but said that guy had the power to make the call on the spot.

I called John, J Jackson of Conservation Force. You might know them from The Hunting Report (Don Causey, now Barbara Crowne.).

John Is an Atty. that deals with just such things. Saved my bongo and other trophies.

The moral of this story is that USFW agents have broad powers to screw with you. Think of the IRS. You need someone who knows their game and can call BS on them. You need to call John. J. Jackson for at least a telephone consult. It's worth the money. If USFW wants to screw with you, it may cost w whole lot more later.

http://www.conservationforce.org/directorsjackson.html

One other thing I learned is that not all USFW Agents are equal. They always have a pair of agents at SCI Reno who know their stuff. I talked with them one year at Reno after the fact, and told them my story. They were put out that the dumbass agent was screwing with me. They gave me their cards, and told me to contact them directly if anything else ever came up as they were Senior Agents, and their job was to work with SCI and hunters in general. That was more than 10 years ago, so I no longer have their contact numbers.

If I were in your situation, I'd call Jackson Monday morning 9 am Central time. If you are going to SCI Reno, look up the agents there. Don't say jack to USFW until you speak to Jackson. (pun intended)

http://www.conservationforce.org/directorsjackson.html

JJ,

Mate, I've never tried to import one but according to the CITES listings, that link I posted earlier and this link: http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Proteles_cristata.html the only place they're listed is in Botswana............. therefore, assuming they were taken elsewhere, they should be importable. Unless of course, USF&WS have one of their own silly rules as they do with Moz Elephant products. - But if that were the case, surely they wouldn;t have let it through to the taxidermist? It must be said though that USF&WS do seem to be a law unto themselves.

FWIW, brown hyena were downlisted about 4 years ago and you can now import them etc.

Might be an idea to ask these guys to tell you what they want to talk to you about beforehand, so you can be sure to have the appropriate info/paperwork etc to hand for them....... after all, it's not an unreasonable request?

(IMO) Hatari has given you some VERY good advice!

You might find this interesting.


http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-4097602514885833865&hl=en&fs=true

Steve, the permits for RSA mean nothing to the USA. Just because we can et permits to hunt an animal in Africa, does not mean that the USA will allow it to be imported.

I contend that they were in the middle of some investigation or "sting" and let the shipments go so as not to alert the people doing this stuff. Then when they have enough evidence they can go collect the whole group since they know where everyone is at.

I cannot get a Brown Hyena Permit in the USA. There is a Brown Hyena mounted in the Atlanta airport saying clearly that

" Just because your outfitter will let you shoot it does not give you the right to bring it back to America"

Aardwolf is by a large margin more difficult to import then a stinking common Brown Hyena! Nature conservation would not issue permits for animals like these unless you could show a need for damage control. Much like a Bat Eared fox. Permits for these would be amazing feat from the Northern/ Limpopo Province. Heck even a Civit, Baboon, Vervet, ringtail genet, etc all require permits before the hunt takes pace now. Rumor has it that even Steenbok and duiker will, if they don't already!