Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only .416 Ruger

As a lefty I am in the process of putting a 416 Ruger together. Ordered a #5 Shilen SS barrel and it is going on a stainless Ruger in the laminate stock. Bet it will be just the ticket for brownies wearing a 1.5x5 Leupold.

Love all these new cartridges coming out. Animals never know if they are hit with a 416 Rem, Rigby or Ruger:)

I have heard rumors of a .416 Remington (Remington 700)in a local gun shop at a reasonable price. I am going to check it out this morning.

HBB,
That sounds interesting.

I used to own a Ruger Magnum in 416 Rigby, a nice rifle, but a bit much for rock chucks and crows...

From what I've read, unless that rifle was built 100 years ago, on the other side of the pond, you'd be wasting your money.

Gee thanks Dennis, what have I done to set you off, had an opinnion? Being opinnionated has never been a crime in my books.

Ray...sorry you misunderstood me about you...guess I was very unclear. You know a vast amount of stuff; have had a vast array of experiences; and happily share with us. I was comparing you as the highly knowledgeable guy to oldman1942, who makes lots of rude statements to many of us, yet shows exactly no exidence of having ever done anything. With you -- we know that you have more experience than any of us will likely ever have, and you're a straight-forward communicator. I personally appreciate that very much, whether I agree with you or not.

No sir -- nothing in my note intended as any form of criticism of you. I apologize for stating my point so poorly that you felt that I was.

Dennis

No joy on the local .416 RM. The shop was closed for Christmas.

My 700 was not built across any pond unless you want to count the Green River lakes.

They are all fine guns....H&Hs are just better.

Cases for the 400 may be EASILY made from 375 H&H and new ones are made by Qual-Cartridge....just pick up the phone.

If you shoot a gun designed for Africa or Alaska and the cost of ammo is an issue you have a bigger problem than saving a few 100 $ on ammo will fix.

Yes, the 404 Ruger is a great cartridge indeed. even if it remains an unsung wildcat. Being the fellow you refer to, I can tell you it certainly does kill buffs dead. Maybe no better than the 416s, but clearly no worse. And since Africa is all about nostalgia, I'll take a 404 anytime for buff and a 500NE DR for ele, and call it good! Bliss, indeed ...

This has been an interesting read from the standpoint of someone whose experiences with cartridges larger than 375 is limited to shooting a few 416 Taylor's, 458's and a 460 Weatherby(not much fun).... at the range...

That said it appears the discussions about American vs Britisg DG cartridges is likely to continue unabted for quite awhile.I can understand where Oldman is coming from because from what I understand the Brits designed their DG cartridges based on the propellants available at the time(cordite),with a mind toward low pressures and reliable function from a magazine rifle and easy feeding and extraction under dirty, grimy,and rust-inducing hot'wet tropical conditions.

Thus they wound up with large cases of sloped, tapered designs that headspaced on rims(for double rifles) and belts for magazine rifles;these fed like grease from magazine rifles ,and initial extraction in Mauser-type actions pulled the fired cases away from the walls of the chambers more readily than the somewhat more straight taper of American designs.Also, headspacing on rims or belts allowed a bit of "slop"in the chamber so that cartridges would chamber more easily if the chamber or case were somewhat dirty or rusty...the belt also served as a firm "stop" so that the case would not move forward under the heavy impact from a Mauser-type firing pin,thereby ensuring reliable ignition.

In designing the 400H&H(a recent development,not really "old") my understanding is that H&H took these "traditional"characteristics into consideration when designing the cases,keeping the old design of a sloping case,optimum velocity and likely low pressures,along with the belt for headspace,etc.

OTOH, American cases(458 Win Mag,416 Remington,375 Ruger) are characterized by straighter cases,higher pressures,smaller case capacity,and shorter more confined actions than the Brits worked with,and so were loaded with more modern propellants.Today we have much better powders than the Brits had to work with "way back when",less temperature sensitive and so on,so that we maybe get the velocity without so much danger of a bolt binding up under tropical heat..But I dunno because here and there you still hear about high pressure sticking cartridges in hot chambers with things like the 416 Remington and some others.

Likely with the progress made with modern propellants,stronger brass,and better projectiles all that came before may become moot as cartridges like the 416 Ruger,etc become popular.

It really isn't hard to understand both sides of the debate,but it also is difficult to ignore the vast experience of the Brits and the cartridges and rifles that have done the job for decades when the chips are down.......so I say let both sides have at it,let the cartridge development continue and hopefully no one on either side will get pounded or gored in the process!

Merry Christmas to all!

Have you ever tried a 378 Weatherby?

Kind of what I am wondering. Why is it such a big deal to make the action half an inch longer?
Just because it saves Ruger money to make short actions doesn't mean that the short cartridges are superior does it?
For example why put a 375 Ruger in a #1 when you could easily use the H&H cartridge? I don't see the advantage.
You could use the .416 Rigby in a #1 as easily as a 416 Ruger so where is the advantage?
I didn't realize there was such a demand for elephant rifles?

Yes, been there, done that, got the slobber knocked out of my nose.

..................Way to go Steelhead.....I`m LMAO!!!!!

..........Ryan and Whelennut,,,,,The longer magnum actions that I `ve owned in the past have never given me a problem. The shorter actions are not superior per say over the longer actions.

However, the shorter actioned rifles provide slightly less rifle weight due to the chambering of certain cartridges which have less OAL. The 375 Ruger wasn`t developed to somehow drop game with more or better killing power than the 375 H&H (as there is no difference between the two in that dept).

Instead, the 375 Ruger was developed to provide the same ballistic performance AS the longer magnum actioned, 45.5" to 46.5" OAL 375 H&H rifles with their 24" to 25" barrel lengths. From a ballistic standpoint, the 375 Ruger can equally do so from a 20" barrel, from a rifle such as the Hawkeye Alaskan, that has an overall rifle length of only 40.75 inches and which costs less too.

Imo, this has nothing to do with any dollar savings Ruger may save in building the shorter actions. Instead, the 375 Ruger simply offers equal performance from a shorter package.

Though the 416 Ruger from a 20" barrel cannot equal the ballistic m/velocity of the 416 Rigby, it really doesn`t need to. Any reputable PH in Africa, should in all cases, provide a shot opportunity for their clients to within a 100 yards or less of dangerous quarry. A 400 gr bullet moving at 2350-2400 fps from a 20" 416 Ruger, will kill equally as well within 100 yards (given the same shot placement and bullet) as the 416 Rigby.

Lest we forget, the vitals in the animal (which is what really needs to be disrupted), are located in the center of the animal. So within 100 yards, the same 400 gr bullet moving from the muzzle @ 2350-2400 fps, will result in the same kill as the same 400 gr bullet moving @ 2600 to 2700 fps.

Like the 375 Ruger, the 416 Ruger simply provides a shorter (lesser expensive) packaged rifle to achieve the same end result.

This is why the 375 Ruger has been so successful and why the 416 Ruger given more time, will make its mark into the 416 field. And given more time as well, we just may see other rifle manufacturers chamber the 416 Ruger, just as others have already indicated plans to chamber the 375 Ruger, namely in the Howa M1500 and CZ.

Dennis,
Now you went and dun it, I am truly humbled and somewhat embarressed with such praise..I am going to have to take reading lessons it seems!

Anyway back to the business at hand..The 375 Ruger and 416 Ruger and that lovely 404 Ruger wildcat are contenders for the new world championship...If Ruger misses out on a 404 Ruger they will not only give up a first 404 in centuries, but they will do a great injustice to all those 404 lovers who simple cannot or will not drop a ton of money in a rifle..It would sell like hotcakes at a whorehouse on an early Saturday morning.

What does the 404 do that the .416 doesn't?

Ryan,
The 404 has nothing over the 416 Rem., Ruger, Rigby..all the same balistically..The 404 has ombiance and nostalgic properties and that's important to some..I love the 404 btw..

I shoot a 416 Rem mostly and because its the most practical and I have so much ammo stowed away for it..

I have owned and built a few 416 Rigbys and 404 Jefferys on standard actions but was never quite satisfied with them, they fed 100 percent, but not 110 percent if you know what I mean...I know Rigby made a few of them also...

The best 416 Rigbys and 404 Jefferys rifles I have owned and built were on the big Obendorf Mauser actions (mod. 20s) they all fed 115 percent, had plenty of room. The one exception was an original 404 Jefferys on a std. Mauser action, and it was a dilly...Also the old FNs were nice but only held two down and one in the chamber. I did see one that held 3 down for some reason. Lots of these still in the Tanzania Game Dept, but mostly in junk condition. I also saw some awesome British sporting rifles, FNs in all calibers in a Govt. warehouse in Mozambique and I tried to work a deal to buy them and import them but to no avail..Hundreds of them were stored there, and later destroyed I am told..

bigsqueeze,
Call me doubting Thomas. Every time a manufacturing company finds a way to do something cheaper they will do it if it saves them a nickel on each one, and they run a lot of 1,000 pcs.
Somebody will be patting themself on the back, you can be sure.
If it saves them money then it is somehow a benefit to the consumer according to their marketing department. I guess I am getting old and cynical.
I haven't seen any major improvements over the original 98 Mauser except for the quality of the steel.
whelennut

The notion that the .416 Remington is over-pressure for hunting in warmer weather was indeed evidently a product of some very early factory loads--plus perhaps the handloads of some guys who somehow think that a 400-grain bullet has to go faster than 2400 fps to kill anything.

I recently ran some tests with two boxes of factory .416 Remington ammo on a very hot August day of almost 100 degrees. One box of ammo was from the early 1990's (the .416 Remington was introduced in 1988) and one was recent. Neither created the slightest problem in my custom-barreled Model 70 Classic, in fact I probably could have opened the bolt on any fired case with my little finger.

I then decided to jack things up a notch and put several rounds of the newer stuff inside a plastic bag with a small theremometer, which got the temperature up to 110. These "hot" rounds also showed no sign of excessive pressure.

My best guess is that if anybody today experiences extraction difficulties with the .416 Remington then the problem is either due to poor rifle maintenance or too-hot handloads.