Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 357 Shot loads for self defense?

varmintinc, I didn't bother to read your whole rant.

I continue to take engineering, business, science and medical courses as necessary for my current work projects and my own interests. If I am working as a consultant to a medical school, it is to their advantage to permit me to take a course to help me understand the subject matter.

If you don't understand how engineering consultancy works at a high level, that's fine. Most people don't.

If you are an engineer then the Pope is Jewish!

Yeah lee Im sure you wanted to ignore it since it was based on facts. Although Im sure they are interesting class in their own right, taking biochemisty or genetics does not make someone a medical school student.

Just curious but would a medical school simply get an engineer with years of experince in the field as opposed to getting an engineer that has to take a class to understand what he needs to do? It seems like it would slow down the process significantly if a rearch team had to wait for someone to finish a class before they could work on a project. I know we all start with a an introductory class at sometime and I am all for someone expanding their horizons but reality has to start somewhere. Now Im just wondering where you took your part time medical school. Im starting at Samual Merrit in the fall for nursing school and that runs about 60-80 hours a week for the accelerated course, nothing part time about it.

And lee if you are the grandmaster of engineering why dont you name yourself and take responsibilites for your projects? I fully admit if I had a national geographic special done regarding my work I would probably post a link here and take credit for it. Seems like most research and accomplishments in any professional field are well documented for both peer review and acknowledgement. Clearly by your posting here or your acomplishments you are not some humble civil servant who is anonamously providing your extrordinary engineering skills for the better of the community.

PS I think Kevin is waiting for you on the whole high power thing, even made a special thread just for you.

Bioengineering only became a field of study in the late 1970s, with Carnegie Mellon being the first school to offer a degree in it, then Clemson, Stanford, MIT, Duke and a few others. It was not until the 1990s that there were a significant number of engineers in bioengineering who were not self-taught.

That's why a medical school in the 1980s or early 1990s couldn't just go out and hire someone with a special degree; there weren't any.

That's all very interesting, but Lee, you just don't have any credibility on this forum, EVEN WHEN YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT SOMETHING. That ought to be telling you something, but you're not getting it.

He's never right, because he can't NOT lie. He's a pathological liar. I have plenty of experience with pathological liars having locked up somewhere near 100 in my LE career. They lie even when the truth would serve them better...like Liar24.

Pugs, are those factory front sights?
Are front sights plural?

Singular.

That gun is what was once called the Distinguished Combat Magnum, an L-Frame .357 Magnum. Very nice.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

so now you say you took exactly two medical school classes? and don't know jackshit about anatomy, but nevertheless claim you helped develop the PSA test....dude, you've got yourself so tangled up in so many contradictory lies there is no getting out.

Well I will stand corrected with that information. Amazing how explaining a position can lend credibility to a statement. I would still think the basic anatomy would have been squeezed in at some point if nothing else as a prerequisite for other courses.

No, he gets a lot more right than he gets wrong; we just tend to notice the wrong because he's so annoying. He infuses enough right to make the lie sound like it's right also. Then he makes over reaching statements and trys to pass them off as fact, when he's clearly wrong. Then he gets caught, and that's when the lies, usually about his supposed "resume" come in to claim that he's in the know and you're not.

He's done this a couple of times before specifically with me. I ask him a direct question (always as a challenge to one his erroneous statements) and he does everything to avoid actually answering the question. I'm sure he'll hone in on this post, rather than actually debate someone who has him pegged as being wrong about something.

The sad thing is; it's all too easy to say...I over stepped...I was wrong...I mis judged...etc. But not this guy.

To answer a PM regarding shot placement from a stictly anatomical point of view...

Take a look at vitals as indicated in the photo. Basicly if you go "center mass" as indicated on most paper targets basicly half of your rounds will go where they need to and the other half will be in the abdominal area. You can clearly see the heart as well as the major veins/arteries are most easily disrupted by hitting from the nipples to the collar bones. Although they are not shown the other organs susceptible to severe bleeding from penetrating or blunt trauma are the liver, spleen and kidneys. The liver is located in the upper right quadrant right below your ribs, your spleen is hiding behind your stomach on the left side also slightly lower than your ribs and your kidneys are sitting right just above your belt line. The abdominal aorta or inferior vena cava are the blue and red lines running under the heart towards the lower body where the branch out into the legs. They will produce fatal levels of blood loss which will lead to irreversible shock (loss of blood to organs causing organ and system failure). Im not going to address the "instant stop", although it is a well documented occurance there is no real agreement yet on what causes unless you disrupt the central nervous system or the assailant chooses to stop the fight for a variety of reasons. A determined opponent will only by stopped by a CNS hit or when the body has lost enough blood that the brain can no longer function. This lack of blood causes an altered level of consciousness by a lack of sufficient oxygen, causing the body to collapse.

Also regarding advice somewhere about "shooting the hips" as a response to a failure to stop with rounds to the chest. I always approach shot placement with hitting the best available target as long as it is exposed. With that said I would target the chest and work my way up and not down. The pelvis is made of fairly rigid structure and penetrating the Illiac crest (the visible bony projections we often think of as our hips) will indeed leave holes but not necessarily cause the joint or lower body stability to fail. The actual target to cause the hip struture to break is the acetabulum joint, located at the top of the femur (your thigh bone) and the acetabulum, which is the socket portion of the joint in the hip. Granted a fracture close to the joint, especially in the femur, could cause a collapse but the joint itself is only about 2" in diameter. I understand the head is typically moving more than the hips but if your going to deliberately target something other than the upper chest consider that the head will probably be a larger target and contains far more vital vessels that be more likely to bring an assailant to a stop.

Best bet for practice is to focus on where the body parts actually lie and be prepared to hit a small moving target while also moving your own butt out of the way. I think once you get past the mall ninja image of airsoft it is an excellent training tool. It allows you to really see what works up close and gives a good understanding of how the angles to the vitals change very quickly. Have fun everyone and stay safe.

Kevin, I like you brother, but there's the truth and there's a lie. If he's infusing factual statements in with lies, he's lying.

Sound reasoning, but you have the flip side...the hips don't move. One of the first things they teach kids who can learn that when you're going for an open field tackle watch the belt buckle. That running back can head fake, shake his shoulders, etc., but he can't change the position of his hips a great deal. Focus on the belt buckle and make a solid tackle. I've heard similiar advice at SWAT schools (not counting snipers) about the head; it's always in motion and very difficult to hit.

Two to the chest one to the groin.

True that the head is moving more than the hips, there is also the issue of the curvature of the head causing deflections, especially in low powered handgun rounds. I was also taught the hips as an option in school but now with a better understanding of anatomy in my life after LE Im not as sold on it unless your running a shotgun. I always liked the methods taught by Phil in the HK school, let it rip and dump a ten round burst from nipples to forehead, always imagined it would be pretty effective.

Personally I always figured its your dance, put them where you want, the fact that you have a solid plan B and prepared for the option leads me to believe either method would be successful.

I guess another reason I got away from the hips is that at typical CQB ranges of 5 yards and in I found it wasnt as hard as I thought it would be to hit someone in the head with reliable consistency. I would have never thought it was possible until several thousand rounds of airsoft convinced me it was a very viable option.

I can't argue with "been there done that"!

I'll have to re-think my "plan B".

I would imagine if I unleashed a 20 round barage of 10mm from nipples to head, some of them would undoubtably hit the head. But, if I didn't stop the threat before I expended 20 rounds...?

I've got my carry/house gun stoked with 135 grain jacketed hollow points moving along at 1450 fps (MV).

I can't argue with that...you're right.

Magnum,
Decent airsoft rigs are cheap and you can probably find a copy of your piece. Yes they absolutely have their limitations but at the same time there will show you things that you could have never replicated on a normal range. Great to be able to do force on force literally in your own living room. Also nice is shooting 5000 rounds only cost about $30.

PS dont skip out on a full face mask, they will chip teeth.

PPS the whole goal is to hit some in an exposed area to make it look like they have chickenpox, bonus points for ears and throat.

LOL