Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Competitive Shooting Rests for shooting off a bench

Hey Guys,

I am looking for a good rest to shoot off of my bench with. I currently am using a front pedestal, and a rear sand bag..both fairly cheap, and recently I have noticed I am moving more then I usually do...possibly the higher power scope.

So, would a bipod, and a rear bag be the way to go? Or is there a rest you guys would recommend?

Thanks for the help!

Shoot straight,

FMP

front rest with a bag on it, I use some kind of Hoppes metal rest with a bag, and a rear bag with sand in it.

I don't shoot a lot of groups that are .25moa or under, but I don't need it that accurate. I test till I get the best I can off a bench and then take it to a match.

What you are trying to do will answer the question better.

I would not use a bipod and bag off a bench for top accuracy though.

Tell us more about your equipment and how you shoot. What is the rifle, caliber, scope magnification, distance and set up? What do you see as your issue with moving? Why are you moving, how are you holding the rifle?

Throwing hardware at the problem is one thing, but perhaps we can cure the software first and then better hardware will simply enhance the system. Or put another way, if you're doing it badly now, better tools are not going to help you much.

My rifle is a remingotn 700 5r Milspec, with a leupold VXII 6-18 AO with turrets. I shoot off my bench at 100, 200, and 500 yards- where most of my shooting is done. I then shoot prone for anything else.

Best possible accuracy is my goal, and, it's not that I move all around- some days I just think that my rest isn't "consistent" enough. It's kind of a pain to have to "pinch" my bags, or move my head to get re-aligned to after I shoot.

I was looking at something like this possibly:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...dex&indexId=cat601233&hasJS=true

FMP,

You answered your own question, front pedestal and rear bag, "both fairly cheap".

Look at Sinclair's rests and bags that they carry. Pricy, but first class. It costs money to go small.

Then they need a good bench to put them on.....

Bipod is a step backwards.

Our benches are great.

The Sinclairs are great, but is that a better direction to go in?

FMP

For me I always have to repinch the bag after a shot. its not going to sit there and retrack perfectly.

Now BR shooters have the right stocks and setups and such but i THINK they also have to move the gun back some, adjust by pinching bags and shoot again.

I know I do. I make sure my body is rested against the table though, and I get all wrapped up in my stock, sometimes with both arms/hands.... more contact is better, and then make sure my neck is not transmitting a pulse or that my chest contact is not either.

Here are some thoughts for you.

1- .308 Win is not a benchrest caliber.
2- Remington 700 is not a benchrest rifle, but it is a great competition or "sniper" rifle.
3- If you want good reviews of front rests, go to 6mmbr.com
4- A 6-18 scope is nowhere near powerful enough for benchrest at longer distances.
5- You need to use or develop exceptional ammunition.

I would not bother with the rest that you showed, I think it's useless for several reasons. On the other hand, if you want to shoot off the bench AND prone, you could use the bipod from Sinclair. I have one that I use on two rifles for F-class competition and I find that it is absolutely excellent on a bench also.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/5363/Bipods-Adapters

I have had mine for 18 months now, and I love it. It will do a great job with your Remington 700.

As for rear bags, I recommend one from Sinclair, filled with their heavy chromite sand. Take the time to learn how to setup the bipod, rifle and bag and then shoot it properly. Learn to hold the rifle properly and pull the trigger without moving the rifle.

well I am not really shooting in bench rest competitions.. Nor do I have the skill to start. I am however looking to better myself.. And am really looking to learn f class.

Figured this wouldn't be a bad place to start!

Thanks

FMP

In that case, the bipod and the rear bag I mentioned are exactly what you need.

So..what can you tell me about f class? Is there another place to refer?

Thanks a million guys!

There are a slew of articles, concerning F class right here. Scroll down and you will see them.


Well, I just went looking for those threads and, they're gone!!!!! Am I having a senior moment or were they moved?

Not a senior moment, I guess they were all archived or rolled off. I was fixin' to write the next chapter and noticed they prior ones were gone. However, I have all the originals, of course, so I could repost them, but most everyone who wants them has already seen them.

Go to this website http://www.usrifleteams.com/

click the "Forums" tab, click the "Long-Range" link.

Register, viola, best Long Range and F-Class info you can get imo. These guys are the "professionals" if you will.

There isn't anything wrong with your line of thinking!!!

Every year we have one or two people who've never shot Benchrest show up at our matches looking to shoot... with a factory rifle. THAT'S THE REASON WE RUN A SPECIFIC CLASS WHERE THEY CAN COMPETE AGAINST EACHOTHER and not against Benchrest rifles. We encourage you to come, good way for you to get started in BR shooting. Many of us have started that way.

Aalf gave you an excellent example of what you need. Get a Sinclair rest, and which ever top you'd like (windage top or fixed top). You'll need a front bag that fits the contour of the forearm filled with heavy sand, and a rear rabbit ear bag also filled with heavy sand. STAY AWAY FROM BEACH SAND!!! You can work on your mechanics-right hand grip, cheek & shoulder pressure, trigger control and breathing while shooting from a bench which will transfer to your prone position. You'll also benifit when fine tuning your loads by shooting from a bench.

Make up some targets on your computer that are compatible the scope you have. There's quite a few free targets on the net that will give you an idea of what to use. Your looking for something that gives you a precise aiming point that you can marry to the reticle in your scope.

Your Remington may not be a "Benchrest" rifle, you'd be surprised at the accurcay some of us have squeezed out of a factory rifle!!! Have fun with it.

Benchrest competition is for wusses who are too scared to get on their bellies and shoot real rifles at real targets. We F-classers don't shoot for groups, we shoot for score.


Actually, it doesn't matter which way you pick, just go out there and start competing, I promise you will have a lot of fun and you will learn a great deal. Start with what you have, see what the folks are using and go from there. I can assure you that people will welcome you and will help you along, just check your ego at the gate because there are some great shooters out there, even if some of them are wusses.

Hey FMP, a good technique when shooting for group. Intentionally set your elevation 1-2 moa or so higher than zero. Reason is that you always have a clean point of aim (poa)to sight on. Your bullet impacts show up below your poa. Some benchrest targets have this feature, square sighting box over circular bulls. You quarter the box with the scope reticle.

Because you can't barely get below moa with your loads, so you just make the target bigger to boost your scores. Touche'

That's exactly right, aalf.

However, in reference to TD's comment above, what I do for groups, is set up my FTR rig at 100 yards and use a tall skinny piece of paper as the target, like 36-40 inches tall and a couple inches wide. I hang that up at 100 yards and put a little dot about an inch from the bottom, in the middle.

Then I use my no wind 1000 yard zero on the scope and aim for the dot at the bottom of the target and shoot my string. I never see the group form because it's out of the scope. When my string is finished, I love to see the results; one ragged hole.

Just yankin' your chain.

I shoot 1K BR. On one gun, I had a 50 moa base cause I was planning on going to a mile. I had to add a 3'+ piece of cardboard at 500 yards to catch the bullet.

Also, while a 308 may not fit the strictest description of a BR cartrige, don't schitt yourself on the accuracy it's capable of. I also shoot Hunter class, and my first barrel was a 308. Built with a Stolle, Hart, McM, and Jewell, put together by a capable smith. The accuracy could have made a lot of PPC's cry like a little girl. Plus, this year, a 308 set a 1000 yd. group record.

FMP others have commented, and let me. I'm far from the best.. but I have managed to be the highest scoring shooter once at Perry in a match, and I've beaten David Tubb(not Tubbs) at 600 in the process of winning our state match at 600 too...

I was NOT born that way. I used to miss deer at 50 yards. WHOLE deer. And I got a bit better. When I started highpower I was shooting 200 yards offhand and was lucky enough to get all shots on paper (the reduced target thats about maybe 30x30 inches). I"ve come a LONG way and the ONLY way to do that, is to start somewhere, we all did and I can promise none started at the top. Folks are UNBELIEVABLY helpful to new and old shooters. At least in highpower they are and I've delved into silhouette, blackpowder, pistol bullseye, IPSC, IDPA, 3 Pos smallbore too and was welcomed there and pointed in the right direction quickly.

Good luck, jeff

Wusses huh... I thought we were weenies.

We also shoot score in BR. Ten ring is 1/2" diameter, "X" is a 1/16" dot on a 100 yard target. Them dots don't come easy...

Went to the range today..very very cold- not sure, but I don't think my gun was shooting as consistent as usual. I managed to shoot a .25" group- as my daily best, but most were around 1 MOA or greater. I am a little despondent, as I saw some good results my first time out.

The temperature was in the negatives with the wind chill.

-Would I hit different once my barrel cools? It seemed, once I walked down range...by the time I got back, loaded, and ready again- I had one bullet off, then the next 3 where great.

Is there any conditions that are considered "ideal"?

Ftr,
I think you will find that the best Fclass shooters don't use bipods. If you know anything about FClass, you are aware of a fellow named Gary Costello from the UK. Gary won the FClass World Championship this year to refresh your memory. Gary has one of my Shadetree Engineering rest tops. The serious FClass shooters are going to the Coaxial rests as you can get back on target quickly and not miss a wind condition.
Butch

FTR and I along eventually with FMP shoot F-TR. We're restricted to using some form of bipod unless we'd choose to shoot in the F-Open class.

FMP, yea it's normal for a cold barrel shot to be outside of the group.

okay..figured..

Butchlambert, I can surely understand your desire to sell your products here, but you should learn a little more about F-class.

F-TR shooters may be only using .223 or .308 and bipods, but you would be amazed at we we can do even with those limitations.

I have long considered F-open to be nothing more than an armaments race where equipment trumps skill; your ignorant post confirms that thinking. You can keep your GPS-located, battery-operated, chrome-plated, gyro-stabilized, laser-aimed, hydraulically-controlled coaxial rest, I'll stick with my bipod and continue to improve my skills.

AJ is right and this is where it is important to know your rifle. If the first (cold bore) shot is out of the group, you must account for that as you make your adjustments. This is where the quality of the barrel comes into play. An excellent barrel, properly stress relieved should not have much if any difference from cold bore to hot. A competition rifle will have a heavier contour barrel, increasing the rigidity of the barrel and taking much longer to heat up to the point where the barrel may shift.

In an F-class match; I will try to get my 20 rounds for record down range at a fairly rapid rate, if I have the conditions doped right (and I have a fast puller.) My barrel will be warm once I am through, but it will not be moving on me. One of the things we fight in South Texas is the heat build up in the barrel and we have evolved a few tricks to cool the barrel down between relays. These come into play in the hot summer months, but for right now, they are not needed thanks to Global Cooling.

I will tell you right now that I consider the barrel THE item to spend your money on. But only when the time is right. For now, the one on your rifle is all you need to learn to shoot. You will know when you are ready for a new barrel. Barrels are consumable; think of them as a set of new tires on the car.

ftr,
I'm glad that we have somebody here on the forums that is the end all know all. From now on I will PM you for advice on shooting matters before I post.
By reading the post it appears that the open class guys buy their wins.
Butch

lol, f-open is really belly benchrest, even if in the nra rules it says it's not. I'm not slammin' f-open at all. Utmost respect for those folks.

I do agree with FTR S in that f-open is an equipment race for some. And that hurts the discipline.

Oh yea, I shoot F-TR, mr state champ '09, 4th in mr nra regionals '09 (all f-class was combined, so somewhat as expected open guns took 1st & 2nd, tr gun 3rd, me in 4th by 3 points). See, like Rost i can post my accomplishments too. 2009 my first full year shootin' f-class.

It's all for fun mostly guys. Unless you're sponsored or selling gadgets to fellow shooters you'll never recover your ammo expense. Last year my total winnings were around $50 iirc.

Great shooting TooDogs. I have been on the campfire for quite sometime and I do not push my products. If that were so I would list quite a few guys that use them throughout the world. I don't believe in his original post he mentioned FTR FClass shooting. If he did and I missed it, I was mistaken.
ftr, I'm sure you're not as much a smartass as you come off. Your facial expressions and voice inflection does not show up on the net.
Butch

TooDogs, congratulations on a good year.

Like you I have the utmost respect for the F-Openers and for the benchresters also.

I just get a chuckle when I see them kneeling on their prayer mats as they adjust their front rests.

Butch, you can PM me any time, but I only know of F-TR, sorry to disappoint you.

No, but I know they are buying higher scores. You said it yourself when you urinated on bipods; the top F-class shooters all use rests, not bipods. Why would you be trying to sell them a new type of rest if it was not going to help them better their scores? F-Open shooters use exotic calibers, heavy rifles and the rests that I described earlier. So, yes they bought higher scores. The wins, on the other hand, are up for grabs.

However, even with all those advantages, the good F-TR shooters, using the same targets as the F-Open guys are not that far behind the good F-Open shooters; the gap is not that great and it is narrowing.

I know this much, if it helps the score, like a better rest, and if everyone else has a chance to use it and its legal and you can afford it, you are dumb not to use it. You are then shooting apples vs oranges and not representing your abilities the best you can or at the minimum handicapping yourself.

FMJ, YES weather can affect things like accuracy...see the thread on Temp Sensitivity of powders... It might not, it may have just been you, but it very well could have been ammo issues in cold weather or even rather than powder, an issue of the primer not being hot enough in cold weather.

Thats one reason I do my best to shoot ambient temp ammo... I keep my ammo in a small cooler if temps are wild one way or another, not on ice or heat, but just to keep from getting too hot or cold... and pull it out when I'm ready to shoot... I"ve seen just what you talk about in heat situations.... AA2520 and WW 748 were notorious for it.....

I use a cooler for my ammo also. Beyond that, I load my SUV the night before the match but I put the rifle or the ammo in the vehicle only when I leave in the morning. I use Varget, but I see no benefit pushing the temp issue either way.

A straight 70 degrees, a slight tail wind, would be swell for this cat.

On a side note, regardless of what type of competitive shooting requires more skill, what products are better, who knows what, and what everyone has won- we are all here for one reason- which is the decency for the love of shooting sports, so lets play nice.

-Anywho, I have to start re-loading, so I can find what the old girl really likes to spit out. I am hoping the next warmish day(30's) I am going to get down there and send a few more down range.

How many shots do you usually shoot before swabbing/cleaning, while shooting?

FMP

Varget smarget, real f-tr guys use Reloader15, lol.

Anyone heard anything about this IMR 8208XBR powder? Ad says it's stable from -40� to +165� F.

I am curious?

Similar to 133/322 speed.

Hodgdons has a bunch of loads for it on their site.

FMP, we ARE playing nice.
Rost likes to remind us he's great at Hi_Power. The 495 awards are pretty special. FTR knows it all 'cause he's from Texas, don't ya know!. AJ is one of the good guys. Don't know Butch much, seems OK (lol). I'd be honored to shoot with any or all of these gentlemen any time. Me, I'm just a goof from Wisconsin that likes shooting his money down range, as well as tinkering with things that need tinkering with. Gonna play with ejector spring pressure soon too.

Oh yea, sorry not to mention aalf, another fine member!

Thanks aalf. I intend to give that XBR a go. R15 has been my go-to. Varget works too, but around here R15 is easy to come by. For this coming season I need (want to??) to work with heavier bullets. R15 will work for me, but the claims for XBR are interesting.

Sorry for the sidetrack of this thread btw. As you were.

Well in that case, cheers!

I am 19, and still green. Just barely starting to actually shoot a lot. Full time student, and work full time in loan servicing at the local bank. When I am not with the lady- I am shooting as good and as much as I can (daylight permitting)

Hopefully the weather up North brings some rays of sun- I merely forget what it's like. .

Well, I am polite and I would like to think that still counts for something in this day and age.

I buy Varget at Powder Valley when they have it. I buy in braces of 8 pound kegs and that lasts me for a year or more of twice-monthly competitions and the assorted regional and state matches.

I am traveling this month and my wife called me and asked what in tarnation was in the 25 pound box that arrived in the mail. That was my bullet order for the year for the .308. She started using those funny terms.

Yes, you need to get into handloading but beware; it will not save you money, it will just let you shoot that much more.

ftr,
Did you get my email?
Butch

I am not looking to save money...I just lke the sport of it, and shooting little groups!

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0065713216927a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntt=Rock+Chucker&Ntk=Product_liberal&sort=all&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&_D%3Asort=+&Nty=1&hasJS=true&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form1&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1

Think that is the winner?

Or should I piece what I need..

FMP

I sure did and I answered almost right away. I guess you did not get my reply. Check your PM.

Denys

FMP: Invest in a top quality rest like a Sinclair or Hart. It will serve you well for literally your shooting lifetime. Later on, you can add a nice coaxial top like the Shadetree unit if you wish.

Don't get sucked into getting an 'almost' rest...like the Caldwell junk. And those orange Hoppes things might make a good jack stand, but not much else.

Remember the difference between value and price.

Good shootin'. -Al

right on- do they make a whole starter kit? If not- I have NO idea where to start

Gotta say get the SEB Coaxial. And a SEB rear bag too. SEB Coaxial

The Hart rest is a good piece of gear. Their Comp 1 or Comp 2 units are great. See pg. 9 of their catalog. My Hart has given me great service for close to 15 years. I do have an asst. of different tops that accomodate small forearm hunting rigs all the way to my BR stuff.
http://www.rwhart.com/

Sinclair makes several nice rests. The Gen II All Purpose is a good one and can be updated later with different bags, etc.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/prod_detail_list/Shooting-Rests

Add a flat bottomed Protector bunny ear rear bag and you'll have a good, solid setup.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/8034/Rear-Bags

The classifieds at Benchrest Central are a good source of used rests.
http://www.benchrest.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?website=&language=&session_key=

Hope this helps. -Al

al is correct about value. this fall there have been some great bargains out there.

some bases can be upgraded later if the post matches the hole in the base. windage tops or a joystick can be added later to replace a standard top. i shot off a rig like this for several years untill finally going to a farley. most will sell the older rest when it sits long enough.

ask yourself how you shoot. if you dont want to shoot fast there may be no need for a joystick. also certain of the joysticks operate directly opposite from eachother. some shooters find one more to their likeing than the other. some dont like the stick shift at all. the joystick is a really specialized rest for speedshooting.

if you are used to bagsqueezeing you might not need a windage top, but it will not hurt and can be sold. you wont need more than one top, but may need an extra bag for wider stocks.

a lesson in setting up a rifle in the bags will help you a lot.

I think the Sinclair got my nod.

Is there a factory rifle out there that people buy to shoot f class.. Bench rest.. Etc.

Just curious.. As I don't think I have ever shot one accurate enough to consider for either.

For an out-of-the-box gun, it would be hard to beat Savage's F class guns. The 12 F/TR is for the Tactical FClass and their 12 F Class in 6BR or 6.5-284 is for F Class Open. For someone starting out, the 6BR is a nice way to go..super accurate, good available components and long barrel life.

The Model 12 BR is available in 308W and has a bit more traditional butt on the stock. That would probably be my pick for an all-arounder.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/allfirearms/

I have a question for you gentleman- what is the .308 Palma?

I googled, but didn't find a very good source.

The style of reamer used to chamber the rifle. Little tighter dimensions than the standard .308 Winchester reamer, different freebore. Chamber is compatible with the ammo used in Palma matches.

As far as a match rifle, learn to shoot F-Class with the Remington you already have. With proper load tuning you might just find the rifle capable of shooting some decent scores. A little work on the trigger/bedding may be needed, the rifle is a great platform to start with. I earned a "Master" classification in Mid-Range with a factory rifle...

Yah, no doubt. I am going to shoot the crap out of it, and before I buy a totally new rifle- I would re-barrel, and convert what I already have into something better.

The rifle I have has serious potential. I just need some decent time and conditions to show that.

FMP

No belly benchrester here.
Try here.
http://benchrest.com/inlink/index.php?sid=672730821&t=sub_pages&cat=16&num_results=100
Never could understand why anyone would choose to crawl around on the ground like a worm,eat grass and get muddie when you could just shoot off a good solid bench.
I like this one.Its worked well for me.
http://www.benchrest.com/magnummetal/toggle.html
Shooting off a bench.

Shooting off a good solid bench with a good rest and quality bags will show the true accuracy of your set up.And its ALWAYS an equipment war.ALWAYS.
I leave the grass and cow pie eating to the f classless.

dave

ha! my 308 off a lowly bipod @ 200 yards, har har! 6mmPPC, har, grass grows everywhere, good solid benches don't, har

I love shooting prone...which is why a bipod works for me..coyotes won't like it either.

Where's my billfold!! By Gawd, I got something in there to show you!
Butch

waiting!!!, lol

pardon?

How much do you gentleman/(ladies?) shoot?

Let's just say I've been shooting competitively longer than you've been on God's green earth....

Between Benchrest and F-Class matches only, easily 1500 rounds in four months...

We told ya you need to get started reloading.

Benchrest is for fat old farts who can't bend down and touch their toes.

I'm out of competition at the moment, but wife and I used to shoot, my count of components meant we loaded between 10 and 20,000 rounds a year. Not counting dry firing, pellet gun, and 22 practice and not counting the cross training like silhouette, bullseye etc....

that's alotta lead!

My ship needs to come in at work- and ill be set..however, right now- I shot barely 40 rounds a week.

FMP

Belly benchrest sniper wiggers,sniff to many cow patty fumes.
Anything anybody else in accuracy shooting is doing was already done 25 years ago in BR.

dave

Seems to me the sturdy bench uses terra firma as foundation. Prone shooters simply by-pass the sturdy bench and go right to the foundation. d7mms just jealous. har har

wiggers? Ouch..

Benches are like training wheels...

Once you have confidence in your shooting ya can throw em away.

That is excellent and I congratulate you; this is no mean feat. I suspect most people simply do not understand how difficult that is but trust me, it is. Well done.

Hey guys,

So today I shot- hundred yard best was 3/16".

I have a question why would my point of impact chance buy about an inch after maybe 20 rounds shot? I dry swabbed in between every 10 shots.

Also, after how many shots do you clean? And in cold weather(after you shoot, go down range, and your rifle is cooled), and with a freshly cleaned barrel, do you get flyers on the first shot often?

Thanks,

FMP

I've gone exactly 180 rounds before cleaning my 308. Two day tournament. Shot to same poi before and after.

NEVER shoot the first shot on a dry bore. A very, VERY, lite film of oil is necessary. Powder residue provides lube from then on. Trust me on this. A bit of a "flyer" happens.

FMP, as one of the first posters told you, you can't buy your way into the winner's circle. Precision shooting is a black money that will take every dime that you wish to spend and then there will be yet another thingie that is just what you need.
If you do not reload, that should be your first step. Get a good middle of the road kit. Without all the esotheric stuff such as special neck sizers and such. You're just wanting to learn how to make good basic ammo. While you're doing that, learn how to use the equipment you've got. Trigger Time. Live firing at the range AND dry firing at home on the kitchen table. Shooting at a spot on the wall. If you're shooting .25" groups(which means you would win about 75% of the factory matches you'd enter), the question is why didn't you shoot .25" the rest of the time? When you're dry firing at the kitchen table (or at the range), you can concentrate on your technique. When the hammer falls, the cross hairs shouldn't move. At all. If they do, why?
There is a lot you can do before you start buying top of the line front rest and specialty dies.